[SimonS1]

[postquote quote=998687][/postquote]

In reality there are far more than 31,000 people affected. People whose jobs have been lost, or their businesses failed, or can’t pay their bills, or stranded in foreign countries.

I agree there is no point creating guidelines that cannot be enforced, but ultimately you have to accept that in some areas of life there will be risks. Air travel, airports, underground, even in the local Waitrose where you cannot enforce a 2m gap.

All the Police and Army we have available won’t resolve that one. The only way to remove risk from your life is to stay at home, but not everyone has that luxury and some people have a need to get moving.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=998700]I agree there is no point creating guidelines that cannot be enforced, but ultimately you have to accept that in some areas of life there will be risks.[/quote]

cwoodward’s description of HKG quarantine procedures is an example of a Governemnt’s clear and unequivocal protocol on entering their jurisdiction and implementing quarantine. No distinction between arriving HKG or overseas residents, everyone treated the same.

Within a few hours of Boris announcing a ‘quarantine’ private deals between European countries started to appear.The EU then suggests what the UK are planning to implement may be illegal!! To complete the shambolic announcement business leaders within aviation openly suggesting the quarantine rules are a waste of time and unenforceable, there’s confidence

This is not about those who are in the UK choosing to stay at home or not, to mitigate risk, or choosing to fly or not, to mitigate risk or choosing to go shopping or not to mitigate risk; this is about passengers arriving from heavily infected zones, being allowed to enter the UK to put others possibly at risk and whether quarantine will mitigate these risks.

There appears no cohesive strategy amongst the scientific advisers. Thank goodness we do not have Trump in charge over here, but on the other hand, whoever is advising New Zealand and various Asia countries, clearly they have something interesting to offer.

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Jacob, JETHROTULL55, ASK1945

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=998714]cwoodward’s description of HKG quarantine procedures is an example of a Governemnt’s clear and unequivocal protocol on entering their jurisdiction and implementing quarantine. No distinction between arriving HKG or overseas residents, everyone treated the same.

Within a few hours of Boris announcing a ‘quarantine’ private deals between European countries started to appear.The EU then suggests what the UK are planning to implement may be illegal!! To complete the shambolic announcement business leaders within aviation openly suggesting the quarantine rules are a waste of time and unenforceable, there’s confidence[/quote]

But the UK isn’t Hong Kong, it’s about 2,000x the size. How many international ports and airports does HK have to manage? And how many arrivals compared to UK?

Plus the transition period re EU is another complication too.

I’m sure if for the next few months it was possible to have a clear and unequivocal policy we would, perhaps if we only had 427 square miles and one airport for entrance to deal with it would be easier.

How would you set about enforcing it?

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K1ngston, Johnnyg, ASK1945

[DavidGrodentz]

SimonS1, I’m not sure that land mass is the right comparison here, HK is roughly one eighth of the size of the UK in terms of population. It receives approx 60 million visitors each year as opposed to the UK’s roughly 40 million. Yes, there is only one airport and two ferry ports. However we have at least 10 land borders with massive usage.

Martyn, a small correction to your last post. HK does treat arrivals differently. Only HK residents are allowed into the city, non residents are not. And, transit passengers are not allowed at the airport

Until yesterday, we had 23 days without local transmission of the virus, and 9 cases in the same time of returning residents testing positive at the airport or during their mandatory quarantine

Unfortunately, yesterday a local cluster of 8 cases was discovered, contact tracing and extra testing at the local housing estate is taking place

[TupeloKid]

[postquote quote=998716][/postquote]

Also, I believe that the UK had only 150 flights per week to/from China, versus HK’s 450, although obviously it is no longer a case of only taking precautions over China travellers.

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=998304][/postquote]

Martyn the dates you mention are pre lockdown right and before most countries also closed their borders. Would be interested to know what numbers since the lockdown I am assuming if you take away the repatriation flights the numbers are small in comparison?

BTW I watched the programme on Iplayer that you mention heartbreaking and uplifting at the same time first class British TV at its best

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=998716]SimonS1, I’m not sure that land mass is the right comparison here, HK is roughly one eighth of the size of the UK in terms of population. It receives approx 60 million visitors each year as opposed to the UK’s roughly 40 million. Yes, there is only one airport and two ferry ports. However we have at least 10 land borders with massive usage.[/quote]

Indeed it’s a fair point re land mass, however UK has at least 12 significant international airports (not including several others that also have a handful of international flights), the tunnel, and over 10 ports with significant passenger flows

Totally different situation.

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=998732]Martyn the dates you mention are pre lockdown right and before most countries also closed their borders. Would be interested to know what numbers since the lockdown I am assuming if you take away the repatriation flights the numbers are small in comparison?[/quote]

Exactly, Heathrow I believe has indicated passenger numbers are now down 95% and the vast majority are returning citizens, most of whom were tested on boarding.

The bulk of the numbers came in between Jan and mid March. It is totally untrue that at that time the UK was the only place with open borders. I returned on 8th March having visited 3 other countries in March and not questioned in any of them.

[ASK1945]

K1ngston wrote:

“BTW I watched the programme on Iplayer that you mention heartbreaking and uplifting at the same time first class British TV at its best”

K1ngston, if we are talking about the same programme (2 episodes, which were on earlier this week) they featured Martyn’s and my local hospitals, Barnet and the Royal Free. The man featured in the second episode, who died, was a friend of mine, living only 200 metres away and I often walked with him (he was my age). He was very well known in NW London, very kind, humble and incredibly well respected.

I watched his funeral, together with 1,000 others, on Zoom.

For the first time in my life for any TV progamme, I had tears watching both programmes.

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MartynSinclair, K1ngston

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=998741][/postquote]

ASK1945, the time that they were filming in Barnet General my mother was there having been diagnosed with the virus, so obvious poignancy for me too. As Martyn will atest before moving to Asia many years ago I too am from the same home town as he and have various mutual friends and I had the same emotions as most who saw it.

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MartynSinclair

[ASK1945]

” ……………… the time that they were filming in Barnet General my mother was there having been diagnosed with the virus, so obvious poignancy for me too”.

Is your mother ok now?

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K1ngston

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=998745][/postquote]

Thank you for asking, at this time she is one of the few who survived the virus and miraculously she is now home, one would question if she is well as her underlying health problems are still very much an issue but she is probably safer at home than in hospital at this time…..

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Johnnyg, cwoodward, DerekVH, MartynSinclair, ASK1945

[MartynSinclair]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8325045/Flying-height-madness-No-checks-illegal-BA-holidaymakers.html

Is going on holiday regarded as ‘essential travel’?

Some interesting stats about number of flights, passenger numbers, etc. I would imagine though a large percentage of the arriving flights are cargo, but I have no research to quote numbers. I am sure some flights are repatriating UK ex-pats, but they are still international travellers crossing borders and entering the UK.

I still can not fathom why our scientific advisers remain so convinced our border policy works and the rest of the world are barking up the wrong tree.

2 users thanked author for this post.

DavidGrodentz, ASK1945

[ASK1945]

[quote quote=998833]Some interesting stats about number of flights, passenger numbers, etc. I would imagine though a large percentage of the arriving flights are cargo,[/quote]

Martyn

If you don’t already have it, download the app Flightradar24. On that you can see how many flights into airports are by FedEx, DHL etc etc.

Certainly when I last looked a week ago, most inward and outward flights were cargo.

[SimonS1]

God bless the Daily Fail.

If they really think that there were ten in one hour from New York then their writer needs to Google “code share” and check the meaning. I don’t think there were even ten in one hour at peak times.

Otherwise a typical DM article, long on drama, short on facts, ideal reading for the chattering classes.

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cwoodward

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