[ASK1945]

DavidGrodentz wrote: “………… Other countries have done it differently. And, sorry to keep banging on about HK but, for the 1064 cases here, everyone is listed on the HK Government Coronavirus website with details of whether they are imported cases, contacts of imported cases or local transmission.”

David, I think this phrase exactly supports SimonS1’s comment about a Marxist environment: this would not be possible in the UK (or indeed anywhere in the EU) under ourr Data Protection regulations.

Whilst I believe that the UK should have instituted checks at our borders months ago, the difficulty for us would have been far, far more complex, with so many entry points – land, sea and air. Simply, our government was “late to the party” in setting up the infrastructure.

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=999313]If HK, and other countries that are also tracking this data, are getting imported cases, it would be a safe assumption (but not proven by statistics in the UK) that not everyone coming into the UK is free of this virus and therefore capable of spreading the virus[/quote]

Yes, I imagine that would be the case. And phrased more sensibly than the other post about it costing “many lives” which is totally unsubstantiated.

However the debate way back was i) why Heathrow didn’t have checks (because Government’s evidence was that they weren’t effective) and ii) why we didn’t shut all borders (because most flights coming in were repatriation or cargo).

I don’t disagree about HK, but as said before it is easier to manage when you have one international airport through which everything is channelled. I suspect that is why the whole quarantine effort will be quickly abandoned when the workarounds become clear and “air bridges” can be organised. Sooner rather than later I hope.

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ASK1945

[canucklad]

On the point of airbridges. I’m curious what criteria will be used to judge the safety of these airbridges. Another corona euphemistic term. I’d assume that travel to the Netherlands and Sweden is a no, no. Due to them adopting a herd immunity approach?

[GivingupBA]

So, new rules will be put in place at UK borders on 8 June – to those on BT who have long been calling for such action at Heathrow and elsewhere, what effect do you think the new rules will have on Covid-19 in the UK, on infection totals and rates, on death totals and rates?

So, new rules will be put in place at UK borders on 8 June – to those on BT who have long been calling for such action at Heathrow and elsewhere, what effect do you think the new rules will have on trade and travel and tourism to and from the UK and Europe and elsewhere (always remembering any reciprocal immigration rules outside the UK – these are already appearing), e.g. on the airline industry (who have already spoken strongly about any such rules being put in place) including cabin crew and pilots and other staff, on UK hotels, restaurants, and tour companies, on the whole broad and vital UK hospitality and services industry, on money/the bottom line, on jobs in the UK and elsewhere, on business travel to and from the UK, and more broadly on all of us and on the UK economy?

[DavidGrodentz]

ASK1945. I don’t think that HK classifies as a Marxist environment just yet

https://api.data.gov.hk/v1/historical-archive/get-file?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chp.gov.hk%2Ffiles%2Fmisc%2Fenhanced_sur_covid_19_eng.csv&time=20200523-1032

The above is a link to the data on the Government website (hope it works as I have never copied a link to the forum before), not sure how this would fail the EU Data Protection Laws. There must be detailed statistics gathered in the UK on Covid cases and deaths that is just as anonymous

[MartynSinclair]

Totally unenforceable and too casual. There are already adverts offering beat the Quarantine rules by routing via Dublin.

As for all the exemptions…

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules

[quote quote=999327]this would not be possible in the UK (or indeed anywhere in the EU) under ourr Data Protection regulations.[/quote]

ASK1945 – does your above statement, suggest that EU GDPR rules are a barrier to implementation of track and tracing, or that GDPR possibly will not allow EU Governments to have the authority to track and trace without someone’s advanced permission.

Interesting to see in parts of Asia how the wearing of track and trace consumable (or the downloading of an app) is not a choice.. I bet the Fedex pilot jailed in Singapore wished he had taken his 14 day quarantine a little more serioulsy.

[ASK1945]

David

I wrote: ” ……………. I think this phrase exactly supports SimonS1’s comment about a Marxist environment”. I think that the news in the last few days indicates that saddeningly HK is in such an environment, although I concede that the people in charge (for the moment, anyway) are not necessarily Marxist. The point I was making (rather sloppily, I admit) was that culture and political system in HK is very different to the UK.

Martyn

David has written ” …….. everyone is listed on the HK Government Coronavirus website with details of whether they are imported cases, contacts of imported cases or local transmission.” Exactly as I interpreted those words, it would be a breach of GDPR. He has susbequently clarified the words by providing a link to the website to which he referred and I can see that individual names are not identified, so there is no breach.

I haven’t looked into the legality of “Track and Trace” in relation to GDPR, but even with all the disastrous cockups by the UK government so far since February, I cannot believe that the Attorney-General didn’t take some action to ensure that GDPR isn’t being breached, although, with these clowns, you never know ………………

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MartynSinclair

[SimonS1]

Government indicated some time back that GDPR legislation contains get out clauses where there is ‘overwhelming public interest” and the ICO has already indicated it would not take any enforcement steps.

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ASK1945

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=999311][/postquote]

Martyn, its funny I think that Vietnam and Cambodia both very poor in their socio political standings have reported a very low infection rate and zero deaths of course it has nothing to do with the fact that a) both Governments just dont have the infrastructure to record such information and b) it is expedient for both Governments to place heads firmly in sand and not look at what is happening within their countries and decide to report zero as opposed to true numbers!

I say this with some authority, I am heavily involved with a charity that works within Cambodia and I spend time there every year helping out and I just dont believe that a country with so little infrastructure is reporting the way it is, its just not possible?

As for the UK, and whether the borders should have, would have closed etc, i also dont believe that one can quote after the event the Government made a decision and only time will tell what the result of that decision will be. And one final point slightly off piste, am I the only one who couldnt give a rats a@#e whether Cummings did or didnt, this distraction nonsense in my mind is why you cannot take the UK press seriously, my news feed today out of 17 headlines refers 9 times to him ….. I DONT CARE!!!!… clearly no news Monday…..

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ASK1945, AlanOrton1, JETHROTULL55, Tramor01, DerekVH

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=999455]Martyn, its funny I think that Vietnam and Cambodia both very poor in their socio political standings have reported a very low infection rate and zero deaths of course it has nothing to do with the fact that a) both Governments just dont have the infrastructure to record such information and b) it is expedient for both Governments to place heads firmly in sand and not look at what is happening within their countries and decide to report zero as opposed to true numbers!

I say this with some authority, I am heavily involved with a charity that works within Cambodia and I spend time there every year helping out and I just dont believe that a country with so little infrastructure is reporting the way it is, its just not possible?[/quote]

If it is a case of “lies, damned lies and statistics” – whose opinion is credible enough for any of us to believe. Are you re suggesting the WHO are publishing improbable data….?

https://covid19.who.int/region/wpro/country/vn

[Roger]

K1ngston

I suspect you would be in the minority here in the UK (even if not on this Forum) in not caring what Mr Cummings did and questioning whether his actions were in the spirit of the lockdown regulations that were imposed. He is the second prominent figure associated with the government (the first being Professor Ferguson of dubious scientific modelling fame) who appears to have made the judgment that the rules applying to everyone else don’t apply to them, and unsurprisingly that does not play well with popular opinion or with a media that, for the most part, believe that the government’s handling of the pandemic has been chaotic, slow off the mark and, in many respects, quite unimpressive.

Cummings is a pivotal figure in current British politics, albeit an unelected one, is widely disliked and is seen as the architect of Brexit, so there is naturally quite a bit of interest in what he gets up to and a great desire in many parts of the media and political establishments (including the Tory party itself) to ‘bring him down’.

When you walk around with such a large target on your back, it might be prudent to avoid handing out ammunition. Doesn’t say a great deal for his supposed populist insight.

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TupeloKid

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=999485][/postquote]

I am saying the WHO are reporting on information they are being given and therefore I refer to my previous comments … whether its lies or reporting misinformation it is not possible for 2 countries to have “got away” with it as they are reporting

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=999486][/postquote]

Roger thank you for your insight and to be clear I am not based in the UK, I was referring to my own thoughts albeit from afar! Doesn’t necessarily change my opinion but I respect your opinion… Thanks!

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Roger

[MartynSinclair]

A smiling John Holland Kaye gave an excellent interview on Ian King Live this morning. Key points:

+ finally recognising the Government needs to discuss / negotiate health standards for the long haul traveller with the various countries who have locked UK nationals out.

+ even presented the idea of covid 19 tests for arriving or departing passengers. As a side issue, whilst not suggesting passengers are or resemble dogs, but when flying dogs in PJ’s or as cargo there is an international standard that recognises a rabies test for dogs prior to departure, from most countries. A standardised COVID 19 test certificate could eventually be created (accepted though this could be easily forged)..

+ he was pleased to hear about the rescue package for Virgin – but recognised they were in the main unable to accept UK passengers for travel at present

+ recognised there were more and more unrestricted travel opportunities in Europe, but NOT for long haul

+ also confirmed passenger numbers through Heathrow were very slowly increasing

+ introducing robots with ultra violet machines to clean toilets. he was asked if this was cheaper than using humans, he deferred to the standard airline phrase, “the safety of our passengers etc etc”

+ no mention was made about any other medical checks or quarantine for inbound passengers.

As usual, UK late to the party. However, it is promising to read despite the majority of the long haul major international business destinations, shutting Brits out, that at last there appears talk of negotiations to agree a common longhaul travel protocol. The question is, how many other long haul business centres will want Brits in, when they can virtually waltz into the UK unchecked…

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=1003836]+ finally recognising the Government needs to discuss / negotiate health standards for the long haul traveller with the various countries who have locked UK nationals out.[/quote]

To me that is the key.

I spent a bit of time last week checking how to get back to Dubai. It was interesting to find their approach varies by source of passenger:

* All passengers to have a Covid test on arrival in Dubai and isolating until the results received (12 hours or so, enough for a lay in bed the next day)
* Passengers from some countries can board freely
* Passengers from 11 countries plus 6 US cities refused boarding unless holding a Covid free certificate received within 96 hours from a designated lab

Of course Dubai is a lot more fluid (transit passengers plus 80% expat population) but where there is a will there is a way.

The most problematic part is getting back to UK as there is still the 14 day isolation requirement, clearly not enforced. This could have been avoided by introducing a testing solution at the same time.

The other benefit is the airport is Government run and Emirates is Government owned, so it is quite easy to have a single policy. The downside is that Abu Dhabi is different and therefore you cannot cross from Dubai to Abu Dhabi without a test and permission.

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K1ngston

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