[canucklad]

BREAKING NEWS
Heathrow boss demands mass coronavirus screenings at British airports, including temperature checks, antibody tests and mandatory ‘health passports’
• Heathrow chief executive John Holland-Kaye has written to Matt Hancock
• Wants an internationally agreed standard of measures to check passengers
• Mr Holland-Kaye will tell Mr Hancock that airports are coming in for unfair criticism over the Government’s decision not to test

4 users thanked author for this post.

DavidGrodentz, openfly, TerryMcManus24, MartynSinclair

[TerryMcManus24]

bit of common sense …at last..

1 user thanked author for this post.

GivingupBA

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=996705]Not at all. If some decides to steam down the M23 at 90mph and loses control that is a risk.

Yes, drivers have a degree of control. However so do people feeling unwell and walking through the airport.[/quote]

Another ill thought out analogy, which does not consider mitigating risk factors. In the case of the errant driver:

1. There are cameras all over the motorway system for the speeders to seen / monitored / caught / fined

2. Police patrol the motorway system and through legal powers are able to stop / arrest / prosecute dangerous drivers, maximum penalty, imprisonment

3. Where police patrols are restricted, Highway England have patrol cars to provide additional reporting to police

4. Drivers are subject to the rules of the Highway code, again these rules are legally enforced

5. Motorways have a minimum of 3 lanes, which in some areas extend to 5 lanes, providing other drivers a degree of space to safeguard against lunatic drivers

Comparing the risks of driving to passengers travelling through an airport is illogical . Currently, passengers (to/from UK) have their tickets/passports checked, security checks for liquids and computers, but as far as the UK is concerned, there are no checks for the world wide invisible killer the cause of hundreds of thousands of families losing loved.

The UK’s open border policy is out on a limb here – I noticed you were unable to suggest any other country with a similar open border policy for passengers travelling through airports and in such large numbers (USA exempt of course).

I am aware of the pamphlets being handed out to arriving passengers to self isolate if they feel unwell and the maximum fine of £60 if caught sitting on grass is the park. I also see our daily death / infection rates one of the highest in the world.

Well done Mr Holland –Kaye for speaking out.

3 users thanked author for this post.

ViajeroUK, TerryMcManus24, openfly

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=996733]Another ill thought out analogy, which does not consider mitigating risk factors. In the case of the errant driver:[/quote]

Except in most cases there are few/no police patrols, and not so many cameras. So whether you get caught is down to chance. Police attending a fatality is like shutting the gate etc.

I still consider I am at higher risk of death from travelling home from an airport than I might now be travelling through it. However that is only my opinion just like you have yours.

I’m sure with the evolution of the crisis there may be grounds to change many aspects of the testing and detection regime, particularly as additional capacity becomes available. However I’m reassured that will be based on medical and scientific advice rather than the demands of the Facebook brigade.

[Tom Otley]

FT report on details of this

Heathrow chief calls for health checks at airports

John Holland-Kaye urges UK government to publish evidence used to rule out temperature screening

[canucklad]

[quote quote=996733]The UK’s open border policy is out on a limb here – I noticed you were unable to suggest any other country with a similar open border policy for passengers travelling through airports and in such large numbers (USA exempt of course).[/quote]

Not sure if I’ve made tis point before, however its relevant to this conversation so worth repeating

Maybe not now, but there was one country that kept its borders open despite already knowing about the existence of the recognized risk that Covid19 poses

Spanish epidemic modellers have with reasonable accuracy pinpointed the moment the country lost control of the infection rate.
Allowing Valencia fans , first to travel to watch their team play Atalanta and then return from the Lombardy region without restrictions has now in hindsight seen to be reckless.
They add that allowing returning students resided in Lombardy to then scatter through rural Spain accelerated their problems

Sound familiar to what’s currently happening at LHR ?

And Simon , you’re right , I’m not an expert but in this case just making an observation of fact !

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=996758]Sound familiar to what’s currently happening at LHR ?

And Simon , you’re right , I’m not an expert but in this case just making an observation of fact ![/quote]

Not sure 10,000 people arriving at Heathrow over a 17 hour period is quite the same as 44,000 people rammed together for 90 minutes at a football match, although I get the point.

The same observation was made about Cheltenham Festival, 60,000 people a day.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=996765]Not sure 10,000 people arriving at Heathrow over a 17 hour period is quite the same as 44,000 people rammed together for 90 minutes at a football match, although I get the point.[/quote]

The difference being the ramming together at sports events was historical – the Heathrow situation is current & ongoing.

Has anyone been able to identify any country that still maintains a open border with no medical checks for both arriving and departing air passenger or indeed any country that still allows transit passengers to leave the airport and commute any city….?

As Cancuklad says, this has nothing to do with expert of scientific opinion, just looking for factual education…..

1 user thanked author for this post.

TerryMcManus24

[MartynSinclair]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-plans-for-two-week-quarantine-for-anyone-entering-uk-considered-by-government-11979070

[MarcusGB]

I am very shocked that no measures are in place still, since i arrived beginning of March back from Australia, on the Thai A380. That is around 500 people arriving off one aircraft. luckily i came from a half full 1st Class, so least exposure.
Temp testing at BKK Airport, military also thermal screening with Nurses.

No signs or information, just some unclear announcement most people could not understand on board.
Alcogel Hand gel dispensers which, as i stood back to observe, about 5% of people were using.
The staff at LHR were more interested in directing us how to use a Passport, the usual patronising waste of time there.

Professionally, electronic temperature checks are not always reliable, in Hospitals these are taken from inside the ear or a traditional thermometer under the tongue, always giving accurate readings. (If unlucky there is another method!)
But a temperature alone is not an indicator unless excessively high, as you may be rushing off a large aircraft, exit a long haul flight, and have to adapt to a change in outside temperature, movement, and more space.

As we still no so little about this virus, exact symptoms, any set treatment path, IF once you have had the virus, do you still carry it, can it be re-activated, as some have been through 2 episodes. Does that then make you a carrier, or immune?
Would a Health Passport not be discriminatory? Who is less of a risk, someone who has had or carries the virus with possibility of passing it on, re-infection, or someone not having had it, and no form of immunity? Does having had it, give you complete immunity?
We simply are not yet knowing enough. This is a severe threat to human life is the base line.

On arrival in Australia end Jan 20, screening, questions were being asked verbally, and when scanning your passport in to use the electronic gates.
Anyone returning having been exposed and authorities being aware, (Eg Cruise ships, China travel), were taken to designated places in Darwin or Christmas Island to be quarantined, especially off the rescue flights.
I believe Australia, early to screen and secure and then restrict, then close Borders, has had about 100 deaths. NZ less.
It is utterly foolish not to have some sort of screening at LHR at this time along the pathway.

None of us have seen anything like this in Our lifetimes, or in The Airline / travel Industry.
The World has stopped.
We are fighting a War of unseen contagion.
IF we had all the figures truthfully unfiltered to us daily, we would have around 40,000+ deaths so far, counting in the community and “Probable”, and Care homes for the vulnerable, not just Hospitals.
We are heading for the worst death rate in Europe. Only now are we stated to “Be at the contained top of the curve”.
Covid -19 is here to stay, unless we get a vaccine. Ask any Hospital Dr or Nurse.
This is only the first wave, and all Government have done, is contain the capacity to have enough beds, and try to treat!!

So is it not reasonable to expect our Airports, to secure and properly screen, if not Government like Australia, isolate every person who arrives by Air into the UK?
“Australian Borders are “Closed”.
Singapore is into a 2nd Wave Lockdown, building make-shift Hospitals.

This is a Worldwide Crisis, a threat to human life.
Our Airports and Government should react as others, and LHR should act with its own measures, if not imposed to protect our Borders, and stop this spread.
We are an Island, so is it really that complex to secure?!!!

5 users thanked author for this post.

canucklad, Jacob, DavidGrodentz, JETHROTULL55, MartynSinclair

[MartynSinclair]

In case you haven’t heard what Dominic Raab said this morning on Sophie Ridge, here is the transcript, word for word, re protecting our borders.

“in term’s of people coming into the country, the advice so far has always been it will make almost no impact on the spread of the virus because of the decrease of the number of people travelling and the fact that the transmission rate within the UK is high, but we have continually throughout tested this with the scientists and with the chief medical officer to make sure as the evidence changes or we move to a second phase we are able to take any new measures that are necessary so that’s something we will be looking at and I think could include the testing for people coming in and could include social distancing measures and will make sure as I said particularly as we consider any transition to a second phase that we are absolutely on top of the scientific evidence and are taking all the measures that are necessary to protect peoples health to protect life but also to preserve the whole way of life”.

If 15,000 passengers per day entering the UK have almost no effect on the spread of the virus, it is no wonder people are wondering why sitting on a piece of grass whilst social distancing, is an issue.

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PatJordan, TerryMcManus24

[SimonS1]

Good to hear the Government are consistently reviewing medical and scientific advice and will make changes if the evidence changes.

[canucklad]

[quote quote=996856]So is it not reasonable to expect our Airports, to secure and properly screen, if not Government like Australia, isolate every person who arrives by Air into the UK?
“Australian Borders are “Closed”.
Singapore is into a 2nd Wave Lockdown, building make-shift Hospitals.[/quote]

Firstly Marcus thanks for your rather grim post, reminding us all that we’ll need to endure “House Arrest” albeit benevolent for quite a bit longer

We do need to work together , and learn from each other. Mitigating risk is far more achievable than eliminating risk . And importantly these measures need to have a common sense approach .
And these measures like the virus must be able to cross borders freely

For example, having a policy of quarantining arriving passengers for 14 days as the norm just doesn’t correlate with international travel . You’d as well just keeping the lockdown ( House arrest) in place,

After 5 weeks of listening to our politicians and experts go unchallenged by our media it’s becoming more and more frustrating. Both in Scotland and Downing Street I’m getting this queasy feeling that as we approach the end game our politicians and experts will be high fiving each other and seeking our approval that they’ve ridden the patient of cancer, without noticing that their patient had just breathed its last breath because of the cure !!

[ASK1945]

canucklad wrote: “……………………………………… After 5 weeks of listening to our politicians and experts go unchallenged by our media it’s becoming more and more frustrating…………”

I think that’s not right: the media that I am viewing – two newspapers (Times and Mail) and on TV (BBC, ITV and Sky) are all challenging experts and politicians. The problem is that many of the experts – and mostly eminent and well respected in their fields – are not agreed on what has happened and what must happen, moving forward. I think the politicians, who have to make the decisions, are confused. I know that I am.

I believe that Boris et al are binding their time, watching what happens now in other countries, who initially reacted faster than the UK.

[MarcusGB]

Did not mean to be grim, but this is reality from Healthcare Professionals of being face to face with this Pandemic.

Just to clarify, Australia sent a rescue Qantas 747 to several places over some weeks, to return Australians back from clear outbreaks in Wuhan. Hong Kong, and several cruise ships.
A former mining accommodation site in Darwin was one place, which was in fact quite luxurious!
Everyone had their own room, outside access, well catered for, and full medical and Nursing teams, run by the military.
This was happening during February 2020, so it protected the Country, had expert facilities in medical and Nursing terms, safety for those returning, and proper rehabilitation and observation. People were then returned to their place of living by Aircraft, and no one had anything but praise for those who had gone through there.
It removed the risk to Each State, and did not add to pressure or invade Hospitals with the Virus.
Funding was provided entirely by Federal Government.
Unlike LHR and the UK, it removed the risk, and took on board the cost for managing set facilities for arrivals into the country.

New arrivals or tourists at a later stage, were told to self isolate at a given address, and this was backed up with checks, fines or even arrest if not complied with.
Currently Australian borders are closed to Non Australian / NZ citizens or rights to live and work there.

I agree with others on here, that the essential need to travel should be limited to certain criteria, such as being repatriated.
How on earth are we getting 10,000 people flying in a day?
Clearly, this virus was spread through travel. Partly main World Air Hubs, and all seem to have been secured their own, except us!
The EU have closed entry to Non EU Citizens or residents, workers.

Later on when we can begin to fly again ( and most of us will need a holiday or to “get away”), I am sure the EU will set some sensible criteria, and many other countries, and the Airlines, will set their according to the area you fly from, and we can mitigate risk.
The large National and International Airlines are desperate to get us going, KLM/AF, Lufthansa are on the brink and desperately need to begin in a well thought out form, as KLM have published from their CEO.
But it may well be very limited, far more costly as Social distancing on Board will be needed, certainly in Y and PE, seats left free.
But if they use the right LH aircraft, such as A350’s / 787 series with 1-2-1 across in Business class, these may well still be able to be utilised more normally due to the increased space and “Suite” styles.

I certainly want to support with my loyalty of travelling when possible, but this strongly depends on the status, policies and procedures of our destination.
But it must be reasonably safe, clearly different. Schiphol has imposed Social distancing at the whole airport, and KLM policies for boarding, seating etc already.

This link has been posted for Schiphol Measures:

https://www.schiphol.nl/en/messages/coronavirus-update

KLM Measures being taken…

https://news.klm.com/covid-19-flying-with-klm—social-distancing-and-other-measures-on-board/

LHR has done nothing, and it does not need the Government to give them permission to simply facilitate clear signs, staff to explain, Guide, assist, take care of people with social distancing, and similar measures.to exit the airport much more safely.
Our border here remains open and unprotected!

[Author]

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