[ontherunhome]

I have been in touch with my MP and AM, as I live in Wales.I have had good feedback from both of them. I have not mentioned a party, it all depends on your local MP.Please also be aware that they are swamped with Covid-19 issues for their local area.

[TerryMcManus24]

Not Heathrow Related…FIO.in area…good news on Visas..Another Chang…Chai Krup……Government spokeswoman Narumon Pinyosinwat said the Thai Cabinet agreed with the plan proposed by the Immigration Bureau to permit foreigners whose visas had expired since March 26 to stay further until July 31 without having to apply for an extension at immigration offices. GOV’T EXTENDS FOREIGNERS’ STAY TO JULY 31, HALTS 90-DAY REPORT://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2020/04/22/govt-extends-foreigners-stay-to-july-31-halts-90-day-report/

1 user thanked author for this post.

Jacob

[K1ngston]

[postquote quote=996529][/postquote]

Thanks for posting this Terry, but its been a moving target for the last 2 weeks with things changing more than most. We had Singapore extend lockdown to June 1 two days ago and Thailand followed suit to May 30th, they couldnt do this without sorting the visa issue as it had become a debacle from the outset.

We are currently confined to district with strict punishment if anyone tries to go through to a different district, I am hoping this restriction like other rules is relaxed as our vet and Dr are in a different districts

The good thing is and to the point of the thread the airports have been totally shut down so there have been very few new cases on the island and those with the virus contained so things are getting easier here with an end in sight

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=996508]giving priority to cases where there is real need. People stuck abroad, people unable to access Government money and living on food banks, businesses desperate to get grants to survive, key workers anxious for PPE.[/quote]

Are you able to source Government needs and priorities?

COV19 related subjects are taking up the majority of the wonderful BT Forum threads. Whilst none of us are suggesting we are medics or professors (unless a poster states their profession), discussion and thoughts on COV19 remain interesting and beneficial, if only to educate us. In a matter of weeks, the world has changed & will continue to change, until a vaccine has been found.

I taking this lockdown extremely seriously & it does concern me and others that the experts do not feel allowing up to 15,000 passengers into the UK a day (unchecked) is a risk. It is the same experts who said earlier in the pandemic, masks are of no use, but Governments are already making U turns on this.

I would like to be educated, why the UK, Spain and Italy (I am excluding USA) have the highest overall casualty rates according to the WHO’s own website.

https://who.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/ead3c6475654481ca51c248d52ab9c61

Here is the WHO’s worldwide stats

https://covid19.who.int/#

The difference between Europe and the rest of the world, i.e. as the virus spread west, how much more fierce it has become. Yet the east were fast to close borders (against International Law.. apparently), but Europe kept their borders open. There was a very interesting interview with a Professor from New Zealand on Sky News this morning (apologies, I cant source it on the Sky Website yet), who explained NZ kept their borders open but there was compulsory 14 day quarantine for all arriving passengers.

The WHO’s website which confirms international travel will not stop the virus, does though recommend screening on arrival, which the UK, (out on a limb) chose not to undertake. The website also mentions quarantine as a suggestion.

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-recommendations-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-covid-19-outbreak

The Downing Street briefing yesterday (Tuesday 21st), a question about why some UK airports were remaining open was only half answered. The standard WHO response about the virus is already in situ in the UK along with the fact the virus can still be incubating inside an arriving passenger, so checking is of little value. However, what was not mentioned was the fact there is still a low risk of the virus spreading during an incubation period – as evidenced on teh WHO website and other papers (see below)

So going back to the unchecked arriving passengers at Heathrow in particular, according to an article in the New Scientist there remains a risk of virus spreading from person to person, even when someone doesn’t know they are infected or unwell.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238473-you-could-be-spreading-the-coronavirus-without-realising-youve-got-it/

SimonS1, you are always brutally honest and direct, please be as brutal and as hard hitting as you want and explain perhaps why you are not concerned with up to 15,000 passengers a day entering the UK from virus hot spots, all unchecked. You are far too knowledgeable to just be a couch potato and leave it to the experts (or indeed anyone else) or to ask me what I would do (which i have no idea).

There is not much else to do these days other than use the time to be educated (or eat, drink, run and watch TV).

Of course, if Tom and the team feel this discussion is inappropriate, I will accept this thread being moderated/closed.

[SimonS1]

Am I able to source you a list of Government needs and priorities? No, but I would imagine when it comes to your MP’s postbag it is pretty obvious that there would likely be a spike in volumes and they will be giving priority to dealing with genuine cases of hardship, like individuals that are broke, or businesses about to fail, or constituents stranded abroad rather than dealing with general queries. Isn’t that a matter of common sense?

Re Heathrow. The position for me is this. I have no medical qualifications, and therefore no grounds to suggest the advice provided by people who do (and stated on Heathrow website) is inaccurate. One of the issues with the current crisis is that many people sat at home seem to have suddenly become virology experts, which leaves me wondering why they are sat at home and not employed by the Government.

In the WHO article you linked I notice it states:

1. “WHO continues to advise against the application of travel or trade restrictions to countries experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks. In general, evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions.”

2. “Temperature screening alone, at exit or entry, is not an effective way to stop international spread, since infected individuals may be in incubation period, may not express apparent symptoms early on in the course of the disease, or may dissimulate fever through the use of antipyretics; in addition, such measures require substantial investments for what may bear little benefits.”

Which I would say runs contrary to your repeated assertions that Heathrow should be shut down for passengers and/or everyone should be screened.

There is a lot of hot air in many areas, for example the other day some comment was made about the death of two border officers as some form of justification for closing the airport. Of course when you seek out the facts, it has already been confirmed that the first case was not contracted at work (the officer had been on long term sick and not worked since Jan) and the second had not been proved either way.

Nothing is without risks, including the weekly shop in the supermarket (Saturdays for me), taking the dog to the Vet (which I did yesterday) and numerous other ‘essentials’.

As I have always said there will be a time for review later on, right now it’s best for MPs and medical staff to direct their efforts where it matters most and not by pandering to those on Facebook and other social media.

In relation to your penultimate sentence, I have plenty to do working at home, business remains brisk, and I am happy to leave the decisions on such matters to appropriately qualified professionals. So when Government advice in UK tells me non-essential travel can resume, and Government advice in Dubai is that residence holders may safely return, then I will be guided accordingly and would be unlikely to be influenced by much that is written on here.

1 user thanked author for this post.

K1ngston

[DavidGrodentz]

Temperature screening may not be worthwhile at UK airports as not everyone with COVID 19 has a temperature. However, it doesn’t explain why other forms of testing are not carried out. As mentioned before, in HKG they test all arrivals for COVID 19. They don’t get to leave the testing centre at Asiaworld Expo until results are known. They have recently introduced a new option for afternoon and evening arrivals to avoid staying overnight at Asiaworld. These passengers are taken to 1 specific hotel in Kowloon, and can only leave when their results are in

Where there is a will, there is a way

However, HKG arrival numbers are in the 100s, and not the 15,000 mentioned above. Have no idea whether the HK approach is scaleable, probably not

One point of concern. A relatively large number of positive cases picked up at the airport during testing are HK residents returning from the UK

[SimonS1]

[postquote quote=996596][/postquote]

Well it clearly isn’t scaleable, at least in the UK. The Government has a goal of 100,000 tests a day and are currently at +/- 40,000pd. Things have to be prioritised, which means NHS staff on the front line, followed by other high risk cases.

Of course in an ideal world we would test everyone (which is what Tony Blair is suggesting) however reality is there are not sufficient test kits available for a population of 60 million.

[DavidGrodentz]

Sorry Simon, I hit report instead of reply, nothing inappropriate in your comment

From what I have read, there are 40000 tests available per day, but only around 20000 tests being done. Maybe, they could do some more at the airports

[canucklad]

Nicola’s Sturgeon an hour ago…..

“We need to Test, Trace and Isolate”
This is part of her open and transparent approach, having an adult conversation with us all.
Also likely that we won’t see mass gatherings again till at least 2021, and restrictions to continue on our civil liberties until a vaccine can be found

Sadly, it looks like our new Dystopia is being ingrained into our psyche for the foreseeable future !

[SimonS1]

[postquote quote=996634][/postquote]

I think it’s more a logistics issue – too few testing sites and people having to travel too far for tests. On local news last night it was reporting care home staff who were being asked to travel from near Southampton to Gatwick for a test. Nonsense stuff in the current ‘stay at home’ environment but the type of thing that happens under pressure.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=996591]Which I would say runs contrary to your repeated assertions that Heathrow should be shut down for passengers and/or everyone should be screened.[/quote]

You appear to have ignored the evidence that there is a risk the virus can be transmitted even in the incubation period, i.e. walking through the airport, transit passengers travelling to and from the airport. Please consider the effect up to 15,000 passengers per day could cause even if only 3% are in an incubation period. As has already been highlighted, passengers arriving into HKG from London have tested positive, but lickily, the issue there is only in the 100’s not 1000’s

I accept there are risks in everything we do, but most (not all) can be controlled to a degree. This virus, currently, has no controls. Whatever your thoughts, the UK is out on a limb here. Nearly all other countries (USA included) have some form of border control / checking / or quarantine – but not the UK. The result, UK has one of the highest death rates from CV19, again, (excluding USA).

The situation at LHR, especially amongst the security teams is not considered isolated. However, it would be unfair of me to publish evidence from those directly working at the airport.

[DavidGrodentz]

Simon. Yes, I agree that countrywide testing sites would be a logistics nightmare. But, surely multiple desks at Heathrow, with social distancing compliant queueing, to handle thousands of arriving passengers must be feasible

Even if the passengers were not held until results are known, testing and taking contact details, must be better than doing nothing at the airports

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=996678]You appear to have ignored the evidence that there is a risk the virus can be transmitted even in the incubation period, i.e. walking through the airport, transit passengers travelling to and from the airport. Please consider the effect up to 15,000 passengers per day could cause even if only 3% are in an incubation period. As has already been highlighted, passengers arriving into HKG from London have tested positive, but lickily, the issue there is only in the 100’s not 1000’s[/quote]

I haven’t ignored it, just highlighted that what the WHO says is consistent with what PHE says and what is happening at Heathrow.

Of course there are risks everywhere, however the chances of creating a 100% risk free environment are zero. There is a risk I could be in a traffic accident on the way to the airport, however I haven’t started a campaign to remove all cars from the road.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=996684]There is a risk I could be in a traffic accident on the way to the airport, however I haven’t started a campaign to remove all cars from the road.[/quote]

The traffic accident analogy is weak – traffic is controlled and drivers have control over events.

A better analogy for travelling through an airport, with up to 15,000 other passengers during a day – you are given an packet of M & M’s with a printed warning, “this packet may contain 3 out of a 100 dangerously infected sweets that may kill!

Who would take the risk of eating 1 M & M ??

Out of interest, can anyone name any other country that currently has an open border similar to the UK, i.e. no medical checks, no restrictions, no quarantine…. Even Sweden, with its non lock down policy has travel restrictions for non Europeans.

“Border controls
Like other EU countries, Sweden has banned entry to non-EU and non-EEA citizens arriving from outside of the EU until at least 15 May. British nationals are not affected by this ban.” (from the Gov website)

[SimonS1]

[quote quote=996690]The traffic accident analogy is weak – traffic is controlled and drivers have control over events.[/quote]

Not at all. If some decides to steam down the M23 at 90mph and loses control that is a risk.

Yes, drivers have a degree of control. However so do people feeling unwell and walking through the airport.

[Author]

Posts