[christopheL]

As far as I know a reward booking can be paid by anybody even if you are not travelling.

[SimonS1]

Not the point Christophe is it.

I can make you a booking with my points. I can’t give/sell my points to a third party to make you a booking.

Subtle difference.

[malbarda]

SimonS1: yes, you CAN give/sell your points to a third party to make you a booking – see my earlier post (and the one from Pedro01).

It is altogether a different thing if the T&C’s allow it (Pedro01 makes a case that they do, or at least do not/can not expressly say you can’t). Airlines will say that you can’t, but if you follow the process as explained in my earlier post, you CAN do it. And the airline will not be able to find out as long as the booking is made from your account.

As said, I personally would not book it because my travel tends to need flexibility and requires changes at times and this way of booking does not guarantee I can do all that. But if I needed to go point-to-point and wanted comfort, who knows…

[Pedro01]

Well spoken Malbarda!
Getting back to the purpose of this blog, may I suggest bottom line is some people say, no worries, this is fine and works, and others say it might work but is risky?
And with that maybe the topic can be closed (until the next poor soul stumbles over this and reopens the discussion). Good weekend guys, I am off to my Skylux first class flight to Singapore for a thousand bucks ….. Just kidding !
Cheers Pedro

[MartynSinclair]

One of the purposes of this Forum is to provide beneficial information to the traveller as well as highlighting the many pitfalls that travellers can suffer.

What I find very uncomfortable about this thread is that it is trying to justify a buying model that is simply not allowed by the airlines, as confirmed by Charles-P, who has asked the correct question to airlines.

You can use poetic license to show how T & C’s may sound ambiguous, but the bottom line is, when you ask the airlines whether airmiles can be traded as a commodity and tickets purchased for unrelated parties, involving an exchange of cash, nobody, including Skylux have been able to confirm or guarantee that tickets purchased in this manner will be honoured 100%.

In Pedro01’s simple world, (here is a traveller who believes travel insurance is a scam), he supports the idea of buying an airmiles ticket, despite the fact there is a risk involved. Who in their right mind would buy a ticket from an Agent (Skylux) who will not provide a guarantee that boarding will be permitted, without first briefing you with a colourful story, about how you came about owning such a ticket.

An area that seems to have been overlooked is what happens when there is a problem. Example, you are down route on the other side of the world, feeling unwell and in no fit state to travel. Take Pedro01’s example, no travel insurance and you speak to the airline direct to try and get your ticket changed (its out of hours, the SFO office of Skylux is closed).

The airline on seeing it is an airmiles ticket, asks simple questions, please can I have your FF account number and do you know the account holders name…. Game over, ticket cancelled.

[SimonS1]

@malbarda – our views differ then. If you are accessing your FF account to make a booking for a third party then fine. If you are selling your miles to a broker who in turn will make commercial gain then it isn’t (see Charles post – he actually asked).

Most of the time it all goes without a hitch but one day some poor fool will find themselves refused boarding and pay the price.

If it really is legal then there would be a proper industry for it that didn’t need to operate in the shadows. And business travellers on here would be delighted as they could cash in on Avios that it is virtually impossible to use for long haul travel these days.

But each to their own as I have said all the way along, there will always be someone willing to take the risk.

[christopheL]

And what about the people who buy an airline ticket trough SkyLux without knowing their business model ?
If airlines are aware about the way SkyLux and other brokers are able to sell cheap tickets using airmiles they buy, why do they let this business go it’s way ?
On a French legal point of view, I’m pretty sure that an airline cancelling a booking at the time of check-in because it has been sold by SkyLux would be condamned in court.

[BigDog.]

I can understand an occasional student/non-business person being prepared to take the risk. However for a business-traveller, who may even fund the trip themselves, the gamble is far too great.

[SimonS1]

What about them? As with everything in life it is buyer beware. Whenever you buy an air ticket you ensure you are covered – use a bonded agent, use a credit card where the card provider is liable, have travel insurance that covers the appropriate risks etc.

If things appear too good to be true then they usually are.

I would imagine it is quite hard for the airlines to pick up this type of activity. I couldn’t comment on French Law but in most countries I would imagine the airline would deny liability, refer to its T&Cs and it would be down to the passenger and SkyLux to resolve. Alternatively you could go to court, and no doubt it would be a long drawn out and expensive sage.

Of course if it is all genuine then there is nothing to worry about, just very odd how there are dozens of regular travellers like Martyn and Charles who are also regular users the forum, and none of them would appear to trust this model. In fact based on their own posts on the forum SkyLux issue about 17 tickets a month so it doesn’t exactly sound mainstream business, does it?

[MartynSinclair]

@christopheL – an airline will only deny boarding where a ticket being presented is not bone fide, as any organisation will do.

The sports world is trying hard to ban scalpers and it is not unknown for sports fans who have purchased expensive sports tickets to be denied entry to an event as they can not prove they are the owner entitled to use the ticket.

All 3rd party brokers dealing in airmiles need to do is guarantee the sale will cause no issues with the unsuspecting traveller… but they don’t!!!!!

[christopheL]

My point is : how is it possible for an airline to cancel a ticket at the time of check-in when the booking has been recorded in its booking system for a few weeks not to say a few month ?

[MartynSinclair]

a person presents themselves for check with a rewards ticket and is asked anything about the ticket…

or…. and this is where most get caught, trying to make any change to such a booking….

As it has been said many times, making the booking is not the problem – its the exchange of cash by the airmiles broker that causes the problems…. and 99% of the time, the unsuspecting traveller is clueless about these issues…….

[MrMichael]

ChristopheL, just like years ago when a market was around for stolen tickets back in the day paper tickets were the norm and computers were the size of my garden shed, plenty of people turned up with confirmed bookings, and went nowhere. If the airline considers any ticket has been fraudulently purchased ( I choose the word fraud to include not complying with the T&C’s), then they have the right to deny boarding, just as if you were late.

Whether as Canucklad said the airlines choose to turn a blind eye as it gets the miles off the books does not mean they could choose not to turn a blind eye just as you approach check in. Personally, if it is my cash I would not risk it, if my travel manager risked it fine, but there would be hell to pay if it all went tits up.

[christopheL]

Having flown many times with award flights either from one of my accounts or from one of my partner’s account I have never been asked anything about the ticket.
And as changings are concerned, It seems to me that they are made trough a Skylux representative.
I see your point regarding the problem of buying a ticket through a broker but I can’t imagine airlines being authorized to cancel a booking at the time of check-in after asking for an information or document the traveller was not supposed to provide according to the terms and conditions of the ticket.

[SimonS1]

Christophe – if you exceed the speed limit then 95% of the time nothing will happen. However occasionally you will be caught and get pulled up. Sometimes this may be sheer bad luck and caused by someone else.

In this case you never know what will trigger it. Some smart agent who asks you to reconfirm your FF number. An attempt to change the ticket. Or maybe having sold my FF miles I get cold feet, call the airline and tell them I have rethought and want the transactions voided.

The way to check beyond any doubt is simple. Call the airline and ask them if it is acceptable to sell your FF miles to a broker who will in turn sell to someone else at a profit. Guess what they will say.

People may come on here and say there is a legal case for this, that and the other. If the legal case was that strong then there would be legitimate mileage brokerages operating in the open. Or the airlines would have arranged some set up themselves.

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