[christopheL]

@travelworld2
If you are correct, then Pedro01’s assertion should be correct “All that is prohibited is to transfer miles or transfer an award ticket that has already been issued to the member. But that’s not happening here”.
If the ticket has been booked by the owner of the miles account in the name of the purchaser, is there really a legal matter ?

[Charles-P]

I don’t think it matters if it’s legal or not. The airlines issue the air miles they set the rules.

[Pedro01]

But what ChristopheL is saying, I think, (and I agree) is that there is arguably no violation of these rules. The airlines apparently told Charles P otherwise, but that’s completely irrelevant, just like what SkyLux would tell you is completely irrelevant. Only what the TCs say is relevant. For me at the end of the day, this is purely a question of whether I run a risk being bumped. I think there is no such risk, and if there is, then the benefits outweigh the risks. Others disagree.

[Charles-P]

“is that there is arguably no violation of these rules”

Yes there is and if one asks an airline directly rather than asking questions like, “do you approve of SkyLux travel” a different answer results.

In my view the risk of being refused travel is extremely high and in the case of Air France I now know of recent instances where it has happened. As we know that some airline personnel read BT I would assume that this thread has only added to the checks they will be making in the future. Perhaps all the ‘one post wonders; who joined it did not consider that ?

[malbarda]

While I still agree that there is a “bump risk”, whether justified or not, I also have to think about the fact that I have used my miles to book tickets for family members (with and without my family name) as well as 2 of my friends, who obviously do not have my family name at all.

What if my friends had paid me. How was AF or any other airline to know? I think Pedro01 is correct in saying that Skylux does the same. I grant Skylux access to my account, they then book a ticket from my account in name of Pedro01 and off he goes. Pedro01 pays SkyLux, SkyLux pays me and how does the airline know if it was me making a reservation for Pedro01 or SkyLux?

The more I think about it – if this is the way it works, it might actually be OK.

IF the airline finds out, I think the biggest risk will be incurred by me as the miles provider to SkyLux. The airline might immediately suspend me and revoke all my perks (I belief this is in most T&C’s – the airline has the right to throw you out if they deem you have broken their rules).

[SimonS1]

So I need to grant complete strangers access to my FF account to be the seller? Gets even better by the minute.

[MartynSinclair]

Are there really sensible travellers out there, who are fully prepared to take a risk when buying an airticket ???

If this was fully above board and 100% legit, why don’t travel agents advertise as such on their web sites. It would be very easy to give this discussion credibility, by agents dealing in airmile tickets, providing guarantees there will be no problems for any passenger who buy these tickets.

Bottom line is you are taking a risk and the key to the research is exactly as Charles-P says, ask the airline the correct questions…

[canucklad]

i think Pedro’s points are valid and well thought out I’d like to go back to a couple of them ….

1)The difference between section 8 & 30 is pretty straight forward I would have thought. And since Pedro stays in the US, I’ll use an American example……….
If you buy a Slurpee from the 7/11 and it’s in a Fancy Dancy collectable favourite Vancouver Canuck player glass, you’re entitled to collect the glass and use them as a drinking vessel back home. Maybe share with friends, a nice present for Christmas perhaps.
What is definitely taboo, is amassing the collectable glasses to an extent that you can start up an on-line shop , selling 7/11 glasses that have been endorsed by both the NHL & the Canucks franchise. Simply put you’re trading on their name. and more importantly they were free, a gift from 7/11 .

2) The airlines don’t do any of this, presumably because they want to get rid of miles asap, since they constitute huge liabilities on their financial statements.”
A truly salient point, as this come to the crutch of the issue. Earlier this year we debated the worth of these points. IMO the airlines are indulging in Fanny Mae/Mac accountancy. And we all know were that got us……Attaching a value to a non entity of a product for the purposes of manipulating the book value of a company is just plain daft. So Pedro’s point ., put simply is this…..Like the bucket shops of the 70/80’s , Skylux have probably developed a symbiotic relationship with the airlines.. Similar to a parasite that feeds of the back of a Rhino. The rhino knows the pest is there, but allows it continue because its eating the crap.

[travelworld2]

It all boils down to whether the individual wants to take the risk. I, in common with the majority of posters on here, don’t. Pedro01 does and thinks he has a legal argument which legitimizes the Skylux model. .Good luck to him with that. If any other posters on here book with Skylux, get caught and find that they are denied boarding I’m sure Pedro 01 will help…

[SimonS1]

@canucklad

Have read your post about 4 times and, no disrespect, I genuinely don’t understand what you are trying to say?

Why not just ask the airlines whether they consider it a legitimate use of mileage. Personally I think they would say no but no harm in asking. In fact I believe Charles has done so and established the answer.

If someone is willing to take the chance, and hand over their access passwords for the FFP in question, and be prepared to argue the case in court if required then good luck to them.

[PeterCoultas]

love this…all this nonsense about “legal”…what is legal is the various groups of people who have the clout to say “what we want is legal” …

easy for airlines to make the point that FF programs will only allow the use of points for booking certain passengers: the earner, his/her friend/lover/child or whatever they accept…bookings through third parries other than directly from the account holder will not be accepted…

not really rocket science…

[malbarda]

PeterCoultas: the airlines will of course say it is not in agreement with the Terms & Conditions. I am NOT saying there is no risk, or that it is technically “legal”, or that you do not stand the risk of being bumped. I also do NOT condone these practices.

But repeating what I wrote a little earlier there seems to be a way to mitigate the risk about approved or not approved by the airline:

“While I still agree that there is a “bump risk”, whether justified or not, I also have to think about the fact that I have used my miles to book tickets for family members (with and without my family name) as well as 2 of my friends, who obviously do not have my family name at all.

What if my friends had paid me. How was AF or any other airline to know? I think Pedro01 is correct in saying that Skylux does the same. If I grant Skylux access to my account, they then book a ticket from my account in name of Pedro01 and off he goes. Pedro01 pays SkyLux, SkyLux pays me and how does the airline know if it was me making the reservation for Pedro01 or if SkyLux did?”

(this is how it would TECHNICALLY be possible with the airline simply not being able to find out unless they have proof of the whole chain)

[SimonS1]

@malbarda – would you give them your cc number and pin to pay the taxes? Why not go the extra mile…..

[malbarda]

SimonS1: I would not. I would not even use SkyLux because of potential of risk of my trip being disrupted.

But I like the legal/technical challenge of how this WOULD be possible. Others might feel it is a fine way to get cash for their miles.

As it is, I don’t even have enough miles at the moment to book much more than a Delta domestic flight on my miles, let alone sell them via a dodgy business…

[PeterCoultas]

the point I make is this – if any booking is not paid for by the CC of the party making it via their FF account then it should be invalid?

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