[Vertrek]

Morning Dutchyankee,

I am sorry to hear about your bad experiences with KLM, as I never really had any. The only negative experience was the delay caused by snow. But, even then i was informed 2 days ahead about the possible delays and was given a compensation even if the delayed was not their doing. And I have to disagree with you with BA.

For short EU flights, I find BA is almost the same as KLM (although every aspects of KL’s services are way superior). For long-haul BA “Y” is hell on earth, i’ve tried it once and promise myself to avoid it at any cost. BA “J” and KLM current “J”,of course BA “J” seat is better, but that’s about it (perhaps BA T5 lounge as well). However, I doubt that BA CW can compete with KLM new WBC, as even if BA CW is nice, I much prefer LX and latest AZ “J”, as BA CW in itself is very packed and claustrophobic and I do not like forward and backward facing seat.

BA seems as if they are trying to pack as many passenger as possible in their CW cabin, comparable to AF-KLM 10 across Y cabin. The difference is in CW you paid much more to be “sardine-ised”.

Perhaps for your next EU flight, it’s time to give KL another try, as I still think KLM service is EU’s best. 🙂

[dutchyankee]

Goedemorgen Vertrek,

I will most probably do so as I have just tried to secure a good Business Class fare back from BRU or AMS to LED via BA and LX/OS/LH, and the fare is double what I am used to on the Star carriers, and almost triple on BA, where KL has a fare only slightly higher than what I am used to. The flights are right after the big exodus of the G20, so perhaps that is the reason, but as it is my own money, I need to be careful. I will let you know how the flight goes, looks like it is a 737 8 or 9 series, with middle seat kept free so similar to others set up in club. I am not a fan of KL lounges, but again here, I will go with an open mind and see how it goes.

I am happy to be converted and to fly the flag!

Groetjes

[IanFromHKG]

It is a cracking looking seat, I grant you (thanks for posting the link, AOTG). Just a few thoughts – only from the pictures, so of course subject to verification:

The privacy screen is woeful. My pre-teen could look over the top of that. Minor issue, I know, and perhaps it is only intended to give you privacy when you are asleep…

Great to see such a long seat!! However, the footwell looks very narrow

Nice to have some storage space at the footwell, but doesn’t look big enough for anything terribly bulky. And having an oddments drawer under the screen seems a bit odd. However, in the main cabin picture and one of the other pictures it looks as though there is a high shelf near the head of the seat and possibly a sunken area in it to hold a water bottle. I am surprised they don’t highlight that feature in the close-ups as it is a real boon to have somewhere to put bits and pieces without having to stretch for them – although reaching the water bottle while in the sleeping position would be a pain

It does look as though window seat passengers (except in one of the few solo seats) MAY have to climb over a sleeping neighbour to get in and out. Having said that, from the main cabin picture, it looks as though the seats might be slightly staggered, and the same impression is given in the side view of the seat in the section on working in-flight – although later on in the same revolving image it appears that the footwells are level with each other. Very difficult to tell, but I suspect there is no direct aisle access for the window seat (and if there is, why haven’t they highlighted that?). An increasingly important selling point nowadays

Reading back over the above, it does sound as though I am being a bit negative but that isn’t my intention – just raising some observations and questions, which perhaps the better-informed readers may be able to answer

I would add I am impressed with the speed of the roll-out as well – I think someone said it would be done by March next year

We have avoided KLM hitherto because we want fully-flat seats, but I think this makes KLM a real contender for us. Shame they aren’t part of oneworld! Does anyone know of any status match offers by Skyteam members??? LOL

[AMcWhirter]

I came across this picture of the finished product. I don’t believe it’s appeared in the UK until now.

https://twitter.com/MickVelden/status/363669050724855810/photo/1

[Gold-2K]

So the above pic is a 747 upper deck. It doesnt look anywhere near as spacious as the main deck in front of door 1.

Maybe just the lighting of the photo, but it looks quite dated. Brown seats and Maroon carpet. Wouldn’t have been my first choice.

[MartynSinclair]

How many rows on the upper deck?

[Vertrek]

Hi DutchYankee,
Let us know how it goes. Hopefully all will be well and you enjoy it. 🙂

Hi Ian,
I guess only time will tell. You can try to ask AF/KLM for status match. Hey, overall Skyteam is a more organised alliance than Oneworld is. I’ve experienced it (Changing AZ ticket at KL office, try to change AY ticket at BA! They will ask you to contact AY!) 😉

Hi AMW,
Thanks for the pic, it is a nice pic indeed! Love the explosion of colours, and too bad that the blue dots on the carpet are not clear. She should not put any effect on the picture she posted.

Hi Martyn,
6 on the right, 4 on the left.
http://tinyurl.com/o9o28s9

[MartynSinclair]

From the picture there is a crew rest area taking one row, so effectively the seat layout loses 2 seats from ying yang style….

I would imagine that the space per seat is at least the same, if not more than upstairs on BA..

Looks very good..

[IanFromHKG]

That picture seems to answer my issue about the staggered seating and direct aisle access – “paired” seats are offset but only because they are angled towards the window, so presumably no direct aisle access for the window seats

[Edski777]

Martyn,

Both BA and KLM have 20 seats on the upper deck. So the amount of spaci should be about the same.
I love the window seats on the upper deck because of the extra storage next to the seat.
I do hate flying backwards, so no BA in J for me.

On the main deck there is no real comparison possible as BA and KLM use different sections in the cabin. KLM looks a lot more spacious here with only 15 seats in front of Door 1. When booking I would opt for a single seat on the main deck.

I’m still hoping for some reviews of the KLM product fast.

[MartynSinclair]

The KLM floor space for passengers is reduced slightly due to the row of crew rest seats behind the flight deck rest area..

so if there are the same number of seats BA/KLM then BA must have more floor space per seat..

[Gold-2K]

But from the photo it looks like KLM dont have the rear toilet that BA have, hence the additional 2 seats on the right side of the plane? Do they have 2 toilets at the front of the cabin or do KLM have slightly more floor space to play with?

[Edski777]

Yes, they have 2 toilets at the front on the right hand side.

Let this part of the discussion go. It is about nothing.

The real issues that we probably all had with KLM, especially the lie-flat seats, seem to be addressed. On paper it all looks quite impressive.

What really counts now is how the full product is perceived by real passengers.

[IanFromHKG]

Martyn, remember BA upper deck has an unusually wide aisle…

[MarcusUK]

I also look forwards to someone being able to post a review on flying in the new cabin.

For the others who have a poor view of KLM, I have been flying them for 18 years, and in recent years their European flights have been simply excellent. I flew out LHR- AMS last week, and today back.
I flew Economy as I am a Gold FB member so get all the fast tracks, lounges etc both ends, including the excellent T4 Skyteam Lounge.

The KLM lounge today in Schiphol (Intercontinental Crown Lounge as UK not in Schengen), not so busy perhaps due to holidays. (1.30pm -ish) The usual choices of foods, meats , cheese, fresh ciabatta bread rolls, fresh fruits, juices, pastries, A choice of 2 soups, And each month they style the hot dish and salad based on a country they serve. there are always 2 main hot dishes. They change items for dutch Breakfast, Lunch and dinner. All the usual drinks, and excellent Douwe Egberts coffee, fine teas.

Everything you can imagine to drink. i-pads have replaced most newspapers and magazines, so you can sit in a set area and read whatever you wish on there. There are private televisions, also showers and private cubicles to sleep or rest in in a v quiet different area.

The view is fantastic, out over 3 terminals, whole lounge with windows floor to Ceiling. It is a quiet spacious and tasteful lounge.

It is true most Dutch have one main meal each day, but the simple lounge food is great quality, fresh.

The flights in the EU, are all on new (within last 1-4 years) 737-8/900’s. and in the last 2 years 737 -700’s. All have also replaced almost the entire fleet of Cityhopper with Embraers. They have re-designed the seats to be lighter and of stronger composite materials, offering more space and comfort to passengers.

I flew Economy, but the seat 8F was left free next to me as a Gold member so same as in Business class. Usual drinks and sponsored Columbian coffee served in cups made from recycled materials and using No oils, as a green measure.
They are simply excellent in European Business Class too with superb Long dark Blue boxes for food, with 3 dishes on the shortest of flights. It is beautifully served with designer cutlery by Marcel Wanders. (Changed recently all %40 lighter as with all catering equipment).

They are the most modern and comfortable European fleet to fly on, and I had an excellent flight. I would rather go via AMS even to fly to Europe due to their standards and genuine welcoming service, and aircraft standards.

Those who are doubtful should give them a go. Compared to BA on the same route, the A320 I flew “Business” class on last year, with ripped seats, food scraps in the pocket in front of me, tired and uninterested crew,technical faults and delays, lost luggage….Myself and colleagues said “Never again”!

KLM simply provides the best Inter European flights in Economy or Business, these days, with the best new fleet and crews.
My flight was £99 return!

I am sure their new Business cabins as a whole, will be superb, across the whole fleet with the new 777-300ER’s, and Airbus A330’s they have. Dreamliners ordered and A350-900’s also from 2017.
They will be one of the best, and newest fleets of any Airline in the EU.

[Author]

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