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    KLM has taken the first 747-400 with refurbished business class in service last Sunday. It looks stunning with only 15 seats on the main deck and 20 seats on the top deck in C. And they are full flat seats.

    BA has 14 seats in F in the same space that KLM occupies 15 seats in C at the main deck.

    Alex, Tom any idea when we can have a BT trip report and an updated seatplan?

    If KLM can hold on to their current pricing for Business class it looks like a tremendous competitor re-emerging to many airlines on long haul routes in Western Europe.



    would be interested to learn the speed of the roll out. Agreed it will be a great offering, but would be peeved if I was expecting to benefit from the product, if the old business class was being used.



    looks impressive, plus when you add all KLM’s regional connections such as Kent Mansion, Norwich, Southampton, cardiff etc



    Yes a real alternative to BA. Awful regional biz class, lounges in Schipol inspired by Little Chef and cabin crew trained to emulate R2D2. …. And all the food smothered in baby-bell cheese ……. At least the new seats are lie flat …….. Albeit 13 years after BA.




    KLM plans to convert their 21 747 aircraft between now and March 2014. After that they will upgrade their 777 and A330 fleet.



    The BA F comparison is amusing. Finally a hard product that makes those fares interesting



    Hoi Edski!

    Indeed. KLM new product makes BA J looks like sardine class (peace to all BA fans). 😉

    I’ll be sampling it on my flight to HKG this December and January. Let’s see. =)

    Hi Martyn,

    You can see if weather you are in upgraded 747 from their free seat selection at the time of booking. In December, almost all HKG and NRT flights are served with upgraded 747. =)



    What struck me the most is that KLM has put 15 seats in the same area as the BA 14 F seats. That sounds overly spacious for C class compared to almost any other airline.

    I am just wondering is this is really as spacious as it sounds? And if so: at their current C fares?

    I am waiting for the first reviews.



    I mentioned I was scouring for information on seating from various airlines online t’other day and indeed, I saw this min-KLM ‘site. I thought it was a First Class website, what a cracking biz class.


    Are KLM going to give you a clue at point of booking whether you’d be on one of these refitted aircraft?

    IMO, that has to be one of the best looking Business Class cabins and seats that I have seen, I can easily fly KLM from my local airport so I can see a lot more of my business going their way.



    Hi AOTG,

    Yes, if you booked through KLM’s website, at a point of booking before payment, you can pre-book your seat. And if the seat map show a solo seats on 1A, 4A and 4E, then you know that it is a new cabin. 🙂

    Hope it helps and thanks for the link!



    Looks pretty nice (thanks for the website). And far better than the new LH business class! I am afraid though we’ll see KLM prices going up…




    I have just tried to see the AMS-HKG through the booking system on KLM.com.

    For every date i have put in, from next month, and 8 dates in December, the aircraft in use comes up as a combi 747, with the old seating. Just trying to compare the pricing for the new cabin.

    Anyhow, for all your interests, here is The Shareholders letter from the new Corporate team, so you can see where this is all coming from, and the ideas of product enhancement ahead:


    If you click on July’s shareholders letter, you will see the New AF/KLM group Chair & CEO. He aims to review AF cabins also, and is focusing on improving to the highest standard, all the Group Long haul cabins.

    Complete change of Corporate Governance in the group in the last months. Change and the best products are the main focus, and the transform plan is kicking in financially.

    So I think, KLM will continue to attract customers from Most of the UK, even flying from London via AMS.
    Their crews are some of the best, most naturally pleasant and motivated in Europe. Happy, proud to work in the Company, and genuine, friendly, just showing how well they are looked after by the Co, and the KLM Management approach.

    No wonder BA have quite the opposite impression after years of Management and crews on opposite sides, with an autocratic approach. Clearly it shows, clearly it does not work, as many have indicated with their own experiences on BT, from the other threads.

    For KLM, (and I hope the less amiable AF), we should see much better cabins, to compete with the best in Europe within 2 years on the entire fleets. Their business taking passengers from the UK through AMS is ever increasing.



    Well Marcus, BA suffers from WW’s autocratic approach, I agree. Nevertheless, it remains the best European carrier for long haul flights in my view. Btw, have a look at http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/Long-Haul-flights-when-connecting-in-Europe-is-necessary-a-review that I started writing here before making it a new thread…



    One of the few advantages of the dated Club World is you know the product being purchased..

    I think its very wrong for airlines to give to advertise a new seat without giving some indication which routes / times are going to benefit. I know KLM are not yet marketing like this – but this is the issue with airlines with several seat versions, even in conversion to new model mode…

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