[MartynSinclair]

Hey Geo, so now neither you are your Partner work with or are associated with BA. Further, you claim that the BA court case in “landmark” and is being by employees of other companies.

I still suppor my comments about WW needing to go and fresh blood injected into BA Management, but I now in part see why he needs to go. If i had to negotiate with a set of people with a mindset such as the one i am curretnly hearing, I think i woul dbe well on the way to a loony bing by now. Geo, if as you say this is being supported and watched by so many other employess and companies in support, why dont the whole lot come out in support. We could make July (strike month) ALL OF UK ON STRIKE. Its summer, a good excuse for a strike, espcially when everyone can sit in the sun instead of working.

Quite frankly, I think Brown should have stayed in power and this should have been his continuing legacy to solve. The only bad part of the coalition is the fact that the tories dont have the strength to curtail the unions and go for an outright ban. There is a lot to be said for repealing laws allowing for the “brothers” to get together and form a union becasue it appears to me it si merely an excuse to disrupt UK PLC. Very extreme i know, but this situation just cant go on and on.

I woul dhate for any of our regular readers to be disrupted, but I am sure we will hear from VK over the next few days who will undoubtadly confirm that all his 5000 sectors were just perfect, just the tea was served slightly luke warm.

Thai Airways have go my business for now, i will use my now very flexi ticket later in the year.

it simply is pathetic the entire situation – if walshy cant push his way through to a solution and if all the other strikes go through, BA will most certainly shut shop.

As for the pension scheme, if only you knew the full state and the figures involved. BA are basically offering certain crew 7 figure (yes SEVEN FIGURE) sums to buy out benefits.

[Cwyfan]

Maybe the John Lewis model is what we need. All are paid a basic wage, in this case say the industry average, and everything else is on profit share as with John Lewis staff.

Maybe then they would be less keen to inflict losses on BA.

Remember, that they can afford to strike, as, even with their time off, they will still earn an annual amount above their conterparts in other airlines

[MartynSinclair]

Geo, on the basis that neither you are your partner work for BA – you have to accept that the information you are getting about “crew vitimization” is not exactly first or even second hand. Like VK, you can be eloquent (when you want to be) but for some reason, you beleive it is a right for employees to rewarded in a certain manner. BA staff, are treated well, certainly in terms of what they get away with. I recall cameras being installed in the 747 galleys to catch thieving cabin crew stealing booze from the duty free. The continual scramble by staff for upgrades on the nod and wink.

Cabin crew may have to work hard, when they work, but it seems that 80% of their rosta is spent horizontal on beds in rooms or by the pools in quite exotoc locations. Bless, they xometimes dont know what day of the week it is!!

I accept Willy is not the most inspiring of CEO’s to ever grace the exec floor at BH HQ, but on the basis that he is there until he is kicked out, doesnot mean that Cabin crew have a right for additional perks. You make a very good argument for legislation to ban unions and all workers rights – however, i realise that in 2010 that would illegal (although its a pity).

Its such a shame that employees seem to overlook the good they get all the time in favour of some bad. Yesterday, when i spending time with my family I got a call to crew an aircraft to take 2 px to Europe. I was enjoying the sunday afternoon, spending time with the family, enjoying being a father and hey, my boss calls me to go fly. I was not even on a stanby rosta – , these were two pax, who couldnt take the risk of missing a BA flight today – did I get any thanks from my boss, hell no – do i consider i deserve a raise, I sure do – will i get it, absolutely not, pay freeze and cut backs all round.

Geo, you are commenting on heresay, not even first hand facts, speaking as if you are the injured party. You are not even a journalist but merely a PR something or other trying to be put spin on a topical subject.

Strangely, I did support part of the Unite casue, but mainly in the direction of the lack of communications. Its such a pity that Cabin crew dont realise that they are not unique in this position of economic cut backs, but the more responsable employees, who genuinely care for a secure future, act in a more professional and proactive manner, to ensure that their company (whichever one it is) has a viable future.

Like VK, you are both stubborn, him like an ox and you more like a whipping boy who keeps coming back for more. The next time there is a live TV debate, we should get you a VK together with BT as the moderator.

For now Geo, nobody on this forum will change the way you think or act. I can see the redundancies coming……….thick and fast and they will end, when Willy has been given his P60 and the new management team installed.

Enjoy the sunshine and dont get too burnt!!!!!!!!

[NTarrant]

The interesting thing Geo is that whilst you advocate the John Lewis model, very few staff are members of a union. In fact when was the last time you heard of the staff at Debenhams going out on the cobbles? Did the Woolies staff go on strike when the company had lost millions? No.

You argue that BA will break even by next year “indicating the emphasis is not on costs” so what is it?

[MartynSinclair]

Geo – please, if you are going to bring the discussion over to personal issues/situations, please play fair and give the entire story.

“or when his wife was rushed to hospital with a brain hemorrhage and collapsed in the home. Can you imagine being on the other side of the world in a ‘lovely’ hotel (ie 4 walls) during such events. Side issue…”

Are you suggesting for one second that your friend was “stuck” on the other side of the world as his wife was rushed into hospital and wasnt allowed compassionate leave??? Or he wasnt allowed to attend his grandmothers funeral as he was on rosta – cos thats what it sounds like Geo.

At least tell the whole strory not half a story.

With regards to your comment “which I am telling you” re the expense issue – i would be very interested to hear the basis for your “telling you”.

I am beginning to think like the others Geo – your script writing is beginninng to fail you!

[VintageKrug]

Just enjoying a glass of champagne in a European BA lounge this evening.

My flight is running. To Heathrow. Both Cabin Crew and staff are, apparently, BA. Catering is to be “as normal”.

geo obviously has entrenched views, more based around some sort of socialist tract than any knowledge of how a business actually works.

I would make the following three points, having skim read the last few posts:

1. WW has stated BA’s business plan will break even next year; he hasn’t stated how this will be achieved. It will be achieved with or without striking crews; the union must play its part in delivering further savings, and if that doesn’t happen, then WW is left with only one alternative; route pruning and cabin crew redundancies. I expect this to begin very shortly, together with the removal of CE on a number of low yield routes.

2. WW is not “about to be kicked out” there has been a very clear successful plan in place for over a year now, whereby WW will pass on the chalice of BA CEO to Keith Williams, when WW becomes Chairman of TopCo/International Airlines Group.
WW is in a very strong place right now, with the support of the Board and his major shareholders (and more than just the 7% and 3% shareholders i quoted as an example of the institutional support…) and having had an opportunity to explain his strategy publicly and in more detail privately to the City at the recent Investor Day.

3. You mentioned the co-ownership model of John Lewis Partnership. BA Management made considerable efforts over the past decade to include all staff in a profit share and share ownership scheme; all of these initiatives were pared back by the Union (most recently rejected at the start of these talks 18 months ago) as the union realises that would align cabin crew too closely with the Company and the interests of passengers, and would seriously diminish their influence.

I am looking forward to my flight just now as I know it will be staffed with professional, dedicated and fully trained crew who actually want to be at work, serving their customers and earning a market-beating salary.

Will report back on the Tea, the champers is nicely chilled, thanks.

[MartynSinclair]

GEO – Whatever kind of company BA are, i simply dont buy a refusal for leave on compassionate grounds under either of the 2 circumstances you mentioned.

VK – enjoy the champers, trust all is chilled sufficiently and your belly is full by the end of the trip.

I believe you maybe in for a shock shortly regarding the part about WW being secure. I cant believe the city is as split as BA!!! The plans for succession may be in place, but nothing is certain as well you know. If all the forthcoming strikes occur the odds of WW satying are less than 20% and that being generous. If he win and breaks the union then i hope I manage to buy the shares in time.

[JonathanCohen09]

Hello Everyone,

Martyn, i think that you should go on strike until your boss agrees to give you a pay rise in return for your being available to fly 24/7. I will be happy to handle the negotiations on your behalf.

GEO, please please do not talk nonsense about compassionate leave from a firm like BA. Like others I simply do not believe that BA refused his request.

I also do not believe that the airline would not have moved heaven and earth to get him home when his wife was so seriously ill. I believe that they woukld have got him onto the first available flight even if it was with a competitior carrier. When recently I was in the Far East and there was a serious illness in my family, Air France were truly amazing. They put me on an LH flight via FRA in F, I was booked in C, as that would get me to London some hours earlier than they could get me there. BA were fully booked and were most apologetic that they could not help. I do not believe that BA would have done any less for their employee given the circumstances.

As Martyn said, please give the whole story and not just part of it.

Safe travels everyone,

Jonathan

PS VK glad your flights operating and wil be interested to hear your report on crew and catering. Hope you have/had a good flight

[NTarrant]

Geo – Sorry but I don’t buy the leave refusal either and I doubt many other do either.

VK – Enjoy your evening meal.

[Account_Deleted]

Account deleted

[MartynSinclair]

Geo – the problem is that you make such blatantly ridculous statements and tell half stories like all excellent PR gurus and spin doctors. You need to validate and give credability to what you say.

I was one of your supporters, but to come out with a comment regarding the supposed lack of compassionate leave for your collegue or friend when his wife was taken so seriously ill, is just so unbeleivable, that it actually discredits you. If you are then typical of cabin crew supporters, imagine how the other crew come across.

Make your stories complete and tell both sides………………….this has been the problem all the way through, C O M M U N I C A T I O N S !

[VintageKrug]

geo – I think you mean passionate, not “compassionate”.

Please can you post a link to the data which states, categorically, that 70% of LHR crews supported the strike. Further, of those who voted to reject the offer, many will not strike.

BA simply couldn’t operate the number of flights it did today with those sorts of numbers actually walking out.

I think you are confusing the following stats (from BBC….):

“The union said, with turnout of 71%, thousands had voted and there had been an 81% majority against the proposals offered by the airline.” A 71% turnout is about 7,000 of the 10,000 BA cabin crew population (another 3,000 are not unionised) so that makes about 53% who turned up to vote. Even at 80% rejecting the offer, that’s just over 5,500 BA crew who rejected the offer, far short of an absolute majority.

My plane was a BA plane. The crew were BA staff (not volunteers, I knew one of the chaps serving in CE from previous flights). And the catering was as normal. I know NTarrant has a curious fixation with my diet so here goes:

Pommery champagne, warm bread rolls (offered twice) a green salad with sliced breast of spicy chicken and chick peas, camembert and stilton cheese with Dutchy Originals biscuits and a choccy. Two bar runs, coffee/tea runs. More Pommery.

Flight was busy, probably 90% full, with ten rows of CE, all seats full in CE.

T5 not noticeably quieter than normal, a few empty stands and one EuroAtlantic 767 at T3 but apart from that all looked normal.

As logistics improve and more and more staff decide enough’s enough and that £45 a day strike pay won’t keep them in Clover, let alone Country Life spreadable, I would anticipate considerably more staff returning to work as the strike progresses. FT.com has a story which states more staff than anticipated turned up for work. Good for them.

Off again tomorrow. Flying BA. Flights unaffected. ’nuff said.

[NTarrant]

Sounds delightful VK, nice that Pommery. All the best for tomorrow, do share your delights. I am starting to get withdrawl symptoms for CE, have to wait two weeks!

[VintageKrug]

I have to wait about 8 hours!

[VintageKrug]

The location I was in had three services operating. All fully BA. MIne departed 20 mins late – arrived 5 minutes late.

Hot food now being served to all pax on longhaul, as volunteers now trained to do this, plus 747 were taking off while I arrived.

Hardly propaganda. But go ahead and denounce it as lies without producing any evidence to the contrary…..

[Author]

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