[superchris]

Its worth remembering that (IMO) the UK to Australia route is significantly less important today in global economic terms than at any time since commercial flying began.

The real ‘battle ground’ is flying to the full emerged markets of China, Brazil and even West Africa. Although frankly Im not sure the legacy western carriers are over achieving here either…

[LuganoPirate]

Not wishing to put a spanner in the wheel, but, and correct me if I’m wrong, no airline flies from Europe to Sydney non-stop, there’s always a stop somewhere even if you don’t have to get off the plane.

As a couple of alternatives, Air New Zealand. One stop and a change of plane? Or SAA via JNB. One plane change and onwards to either Perth on SAA metal or SYD on QF (codeshare).

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

I would never even consider flying to Australia via Dubai from Europe. I would prefer to get the longer sector over with first (SIN or HKG).

[SimonS1]

Completely agree LP. However if you are from the regions of UK you can travel via Dubai, AD etc with 1 stop. With other carriers its the extra short haul leg, changing at LHR with London Airways or similar with the others and then another stop en route. Fine if you enjoy LHR, AMS, CDG etc I guess.

[LuganoPirate]

On the subject of Australia being less economically important in global terms, I’d say the contrary. Australia is a gateway into the Far East, Indonesian and Chinese market. Australia also has many minerals, ores etc. vital to those markets. In fact billions are pouring into Australia in inward investment.

I think this is backed by all the ME carriers who have added so much extra capacity to the route. Clearly they and the likes of MAS, CX, SIA are filling their planes and likely making money from them.

As long as Western European airlines have their high cost structures, wages, fuel and infrastructure, and then European directives on so many issues which impact them much more than the non EU carriers, they will struggle on these routes.

[LuganoPirate]

Sorry Simon, I was not really thinking of the regions when I typed. Typical Londoner I guess! Clearly from the regions it makes perfect sense to fly via the ME and I believe, if flying from EDI, Newcastle etc via LHR you can’t even through check your baggage but have to collect it and check in again! If it’s still the case, another competitive disadvantage.

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

If you are flying from Belfast, Glasgow etc. to SYD via LHR on BA, your luggage will be checked in the whole way. If you are routed via LHR and HKG to Oz or NZ on CX, I am almost certain this would also be the case.

[IanFromHKG]

It would indeed, alexpo1, provided you don’t have an overly long connection. From the oneworld website (at http://www.oneworld.com/airports-destinations/baggage-information/baggage-queries-during-travel):

If you are travelling on connecting oneworld flights, your luggage will be checked through to your final destination at the time of check-in.*

If the time between connecting oneworld flights is more than 12 hours, you may need to collect your luggage on arrival and check-in again with the outbound carrier.

[canucklad]

Going back to SM’s point about application.
And remembering the majority of passengers on the Kangaroo route do it for leisure, and not for business.

If I was sitting in the BA strategy meeting or indeed KLM , here would be my suggestions to the team.

1) The advantage that HK,KL, Bangkok,Tokyo and Singapore have are they are destinations of choice, so why not allow a break in the journey, with the caveat that if you don’t turn up for the onward leg you are immediately charged the full price fair applicable on that route.
2) If implementing the above policy, negotiate with the local tourist board favourable rates for hotels,local tours, Octopus cards etc.
3) This is particularly relevant to BA ….. Make your “Y” class fit for purpose! Regardless of what goes on up front, if the back of the plane isn’t paying you’re doomed.
4) Create partners within Australia that allow cheap flights. Years ago I purchased a Qantas pass that allowed me to fly 4 sectors very cheaply.
5) Use the right aircraft, on a roster that limits downtime and importantly, be brave and hire your own nationals who live in Singapore or Hong Kong!

If you get the above right you market these as benefits, rather than the single advantage of the Gulf carriers of stopping off in a sweaty shopping centre in the “Middle East”
But I’m afraid, as I’ve said before, the European airlines and Qantas just don’t seem to have any imagination. And as long as they keep thinking linearly the Gulf 3 will be allowed to continue to eat up market share unabated!

[AMcWhirter]

Barely a week after announcing his airline was pulling off the kangaroo route, Sir Richard Branson criticises QF’s JV with EK.

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleeast/2014/02/11/fiesty-richard-branson-attacks-airline-alliances/

[rferguson]

Oh he loves a good old moan to the press – all in the interests of the consumer of course 😉

[canucklad]

Afternoon rferguson
He’s quite right though. I can’t think of another industry that would be allowed to get away with what BA & AA are doing across the pond.
One word sums it up …… “ Cartel”
Could you imagine the outrage if Scottish Power and EDF were found to be sharing revenue and thus profits between them ?

[AnthonyDunn]

@ canucklad – 11/02/2014 13:23 GMT

We have previously disagreed on this! Even after I provided the evidence of the number of non-AA/BA flights across the pond using DL, VS and UA.

And then, of course, there is always the option of flying via AMS, CDG, FRA, CPH, LIN or ZRH/GVA should you wish to avail of other airline alliances’ take on the BA “dog-leg routine” that my Snr Mgt has been using over the past year or so.

[rferguson]

Hey Canucklad. I would have agreed with you. Had we not seen the mega-marriages previous to BA/AA: merging of United and Continental. Or the mega Lufthansa bloc of Lufthansa/Austrian/Swiss/Germanwings/Brussels Airlines that seemed somehow to get the green light.

It just seems the direction the whole industry has taken. But of course because SRB doesn’t like that direction it is wrong. Had it been Virgin that had got the ball rolling and been one of the first to consolidate/start JSA’s it would have been in the best interests of the consumer – yeah right.

[SimonS1]

A cartel? From memory I thought you could fly across the pond with BA/American, United/Continental, Delta/Virgin, Air India, Kuwait Airways, plus Norwegian are on the way. More competition than on many routes.

I didn’t realise that Sir Richard had been in Dubai. The Gulf countries are such dastardly places that by talking about EK and Qantas in that way I’m surprised he wasn’t arrested by the nearest police officer and locked up.

If he is promoting innovation and entrepreneurship maybe he will let us know how he is getting on with ‘4 Engines 4 Longhaul’, starting grids, the ‘Chip Fat Express’ and other great ideas he had.

[Author]

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