[JohnPhelanAustralia]

Ian – it’s a real shame if you leave, as you’ve brought some great thoughts and insights to the forum.

My view is that it’s fine to disagree with other posters, and generally OK to even be a bit sarcastic at times – but once people start name-calling and launching personal insults, then that’s over the top and needs to be stopped. It’s classic bullying behaviour, and has no place here.

On quite a number of occasions I’ve copped some fairly nasty personal abuse, because I’ve asked posters to cease personal abuse of others; the irony of their responses seems to be lost on them!

In my view, the moderators of this site should be much tougher – those who launch personal attacks should be banned, full stop, and their IP addresses blocked so they can’t re-sign up under new names.

I also am firmly of the view that people should use their real names (though I have no idea how to enforce this). I don’t think it’s a coincidence that none of the bullies on this forum use their real names. People are much more likely to be civil if we know who they are, and much more likely to be abusive if they can hide under the cloak of anonymity.

[SimonS1]

“FormerlyDoS – 28/03/2013 11:48 GMT

“VK … I could use, some very apt Aussie language, but will refrain from doing so mate … as you do appear to be lacking in any form of understanding of the damage you personally are causing to the credibility of this great forum. “

+1″

+2 in fact.

The forum could be a great asset for travellers were it not for two things. Firstly bores that go on promoting their personal agenda without any form of objectivity and 2. people who post things as fact pretending to be experts only to find when challenged that they have actually never used the service in question. That sadly doesn’t help anyone.

[Henkel.Trocken]

I guess I’ll add my thoughts.

No doubt some people here see me as part of the problem, if you do, I apologise unreservedly, it’s not my intention.

I joined this forum and made posts that I thought were appropriate but quite quickly found that from a certain quarter I was dismissed though the dismissal was not based in fact or substance and it was quite often belittling. About a year ago, I stopped posting for a fairly long period following some very personalised insults that I would state I considered to be bullying. I don’t know what I did to deserve them but the posts were also deleted but that is a common trait of the poster concerned.

On reflection, all I had done was question a particular poster and their knowledge and views which seemed to lack foundation in reality.

There were other good and useful people around then and I’m thinking of RichHI1, DoS who of course is back and a few more all of who I think were the focus of attacks. Most have gone which is sad, Rich’s knowledge of travel to the US was excellent and I valued him as it’s an area I am weak on.

Late last year I made a decision to post again, I think I have knowledge and things to contribute and more importantly, things to learn. I also decided that I was not going to be bullied again and that if there was even the slightest hint of it, I would go on the attack which is what I would do in reality. That is what I have done, some may have found it offensive and again I apologise but I am not going to be bullied by VintageKrug or for that matter anyone else.

I will further say that I have challenged some of the more bizarre claims, made without evidence. You don’t get a response to those challenges mostly of course because the posts are designed to antagonise the knowledgeable and misinform those who know less.

I and others have been accused of being a bully. I regard that accusation as repulsive and unfounded and the accusations are made by the only person on the board who I think is a bully.

I have certainly had disagreements with others over time, it wouldn’t be real life if we didn’t disagree with each other and it’s part of healthy debate, sometimes disagreements are more or less pleasant, in the nature of them they won’t always be nice. I don’t think I enter into any sort of argument for the sake of it but I do challenge when I know misinformation is posted, more or less gently depending on the poster.

VintageKrug seems to be at war with a number of people who don’t share his views and indeed lists names of people. To me that person is the source of the problem. What I don’t understand is why the situation is allowed to continue. The board is a much more pleasant place when VintageKrug stays away.

To conclude, I’d rather Ian didn’t go either. We don’t have much in common but I know he posts valuable information for many people and I wouldn’t want others to lose out.

If there is a groundswell of opinion that the board would be a better place if I bowed out, then I will. I just need to hear it straight from 10+ of the sensible and regular posters on the board.

[Papillion53]

Capetonianm- least said, soonest mended; broad shoulders I like, but no, not you!

I’ve said it before and I will say it again, posters write stuff and others interpret it in their own way, sometimes not in the way it was intended by the writer – there is no accommodating for this in the written word on an Internet forum. I think posters may need to grow a thicker skin, and as Irons80 said “get off your high horse” – I would just add here the higher the horse, the harder the fall!

We all write things, sometimes in the heat of the moment that we may later regret, so if you ever do that, retract, apologise, discuss, amend, embrace differences of opinion, but to simply delete a post is not the answer here as it makes all of what follows nonsense. If a post is particularly offensive, then I know the admin team will delete it.

So come on, we are heading towards a long holiday weekend, hopefully some better weather – and lots of chocolate Easter Eggs!

For these reasons alone, Happy Easter and have fun whatever you are doing and wherever you are in our Big World! 🙂

[dutchyankee]

@HT, one of your best posts, and I agree with you. I do not always see eye to eye with VK, and have not been attacked by him often, but what does astound me is he has listed a diatribe of comments he sees as attacks on him by yourself or others, but has very cleverly neglected to post his litany of insults, attacks, slander, and hate against you and others. What is it they say about people living in glass houses??? HT, dont leave the forum, I enjoy your posts, and it is thanks to you that I have tried Lufthansa again after many years, and truly pleasantly surprised!

[Papillion53]

HT – don’t you start about leaving – honestly, I may not be in your top 10, 😉 :-), but would hope you consider me a sensible poster. I don’t want anyone to leave! There is a great mix of people on here and everyone has something to contribute. Now we may not all agree at times, but that’s normal, isn’t it? Good grief, if everyone thought the same, did the same, ate the same (well except this weekend with choccie eggs), it would all be so boring!

Just don’t ever tell me to go do some ironing …..!!! 😉

[AllOverTheGaff]

Henkel.Trocken – 28/03/2013 15:54 GMT
If there is a groundswell of opinion that the board would be a better place if I bowed out, then I will. I just need to hear it straight from 10+ of the sensible and regular posters on the board.

Erm, not sure if I am sensible….anyway, my vote.

–1

Regards.
AOTG.

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

Henkel.Trocken

I may not be the most serious poster here, but I can’t think of a single person I would like to see leave.

Yes, we all have bad days and I for one say things I later regret. Anyway, who wants a forum full of perfect posters?

Well said papillion 16:04

So, count me in HT 🙂

[CXDiamond]

Ian, I too would appreciate you staying. Although we walk the same streets and both fly CX lots I have learned things from your posts.

Henkel.Trocken please don’t go either. You have often said what I am thinking.

Now, I will leave myself open to the accusation of making a personal attack but I am just saying what I think:

I have long thought that this board is manipulated by VintageKrug to suit some sort of personal agenda. Misinformation is often posted as fact, personal insults are thrown and then often deleted as are other posts making nonsense of subsequent posts and the thread difficult to follow.

Asking for evidence behind these posts results in either silence or accusations of bullying accompanied by a level of arrogance which is breath taking. Anyone reasonable would simply post the evidence. If it existed.

The post outlining comments made by HT and BigDog is in my view a very skilled and manipulative post designed to make those of us who have busy lives think this is a one sided affair and that VintageKrug is being attacked. That is far from the case.

From my observations the antagonism is started time and time again by VintageKrug and when others respond, they are accused of being troublemakers. Most people are too busy to follow up such issues and they just move on. Just look at the volume of posts made by VintageKrug in comparison to anyone else. To me it smacks of someone without enough to do.

That someone accumulates posts as VintageKrug did earlier today at 10.58 suggests to me that we have someone here who has too much time on their hands or that their purpose in posting is purely manipulative. VintageKrug as dutchyankee rightly points out above fails to mention or include any of the insults he has posted about others.

I agree with the earlier post, sorry, I can’t remember who made it that what we have here is a very skilled and manipulative troll. I think the Business Traveller team should deal with this situation and it does no credit to them or the publication that they fail to.

[lloydah]

I don’t fly as much as or as far as most of the rest of you these days and have only been on this site for a couple of years but find it sad that people have to think about leaving for the reasons given. It’s up to all of us to behave, take the odd jibe with a bit of a shrug and get on. I find most comments on the site both helpful and illuminating although I know I don’t give much back because of my limited experience – mostly intra Europe and the States. I haven’t been targeted by anyone – yet. Then I think of some advice I was given once when having to give my first lectures, “Just think of the audience naked and you’ll never feel embarrassed”. So, now to have some nightmares about some naked posters ….:)

[Irons80]

I am sorry but Henkel’s post is highly disingenuous – of course he will judge who is a sensible poster and who isn’t which means you cannot take what he says at face value. I have been subjected to vile comments and abuse from him and therefore he has no right to make any kind of stand against the behaviours or comments of others.

This whole thread is a waste of time – if everyone grows up, makes an effort to stop the abuse and ignore people who say things they don’t like then we will all find it a better forum.

And enough of this pointless grandstanding about leaving and not posting again. This is an online forum for goodness sake, not a parliament or a courthouse.

[DavidGordon10]

This has created a lot of discussion. I add two things to follow on my earlier post at 08.44.

First, I strongly support the comment that it would be better if we all posted under our real names. I used to write under an alias (“gordoncph”, actually easy to find if you Google it) and when I re-registered BT gave me a name which is my own. I am David Gordon. If more of us, or most of us, re-registered under our own names, things would improve. I appreciate that some excellent posters are airline staff and might reasonably need an alias.

Second, I walked away some months ago because (as I wrote this morning) “The last straw for me, in my earlier incarnation, was being told in a lordly fashion that ‘anywhere worth visiting takes a long time to get through immigration’ ” I wonder who wrote that?

[AllOverTheGaff]

Irons80 – 28/03/2013 18:16 GMT
This whole thread is a waste of time

I disagree, I think it is long overdue.

Regards.
AOTG.

[DavidGordon10]

AOTG – 18.16

I agree, not a waste of time, long overdue.

Also, those who leave, and sometimes return, are not grandstanding: they are just fed up with bad manners.

The forum is useful, and sometimes very good indeed. Remember we helped one friend get transport to see his mother?

[coopster]

These forums can be a great exchange of knowledge, ideas, opinions and questions, from a wide range of people from around the world with the core theme being people who have a genuine interest/passion about travel/aviation

What disappoints me is how quickly many threads quickly dissolve into personal attacks, or if someone has a differing opinion to a couple of strongly opinionated posters they are attacked or has been mentioned “bullied”, and shot down in flames

There are a number of very strongly opinionated posters on this forum, and a lot of “tunnel vision” opinions that dominate throughout.

Pointing out a single poster for being the cause of all the problems is just another sign of bullying and personal attacks

We all have the choice of what we read on the forum and what we choose to contribute to.

For me I completely switch off when the tedious and repetitve BA bashing starts, or the what I call the “all about me” threads of “can you believe it Im a platinum frequent flyer, and I got into the lounge and there was only cold food offered and that is not acceptable of the airline, and they are fast going downhill and I will take my business elsewhere” , but then continue to post about the same airline again and again

It is often commented about whether the airlines or airports read these forums and take note of the criticisms being raised. They probably would until the threads become personal, emotional and immature

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