[stevescoots]

Swiss, I have deliberately moved a bag of someone doing that before, some gold card carrying twonk who was first to board yet sat right at the back of the cabin. I moved it about 6 rows back. Unfortunately, now with no hold allowance for Y in ET the cabins now resemble those on US flights with carry ones wholly inappropriate for the space.

Babushka, of course theft is less of an offence from a bomber……that’s like saying doing a runner from a restaurant is just as bad as blowing the thing up with 100 people inside, or bankers rigging libor is the same as me finding a tenner in the street and deciding not to hand it to the police. By that rationale in countries where capital punishment exists then no matter the crime it’s the gallows. How very middle ages. It’s all about perspectives. Suspected as a bomber is by the very definition not a crime, it’s not a crime to be suspected of anything.
As for complaining to the cabin crew, well there is clearly a very big difference between someone sitting in a seat they have not paid for or doing something suspicious that could endanger the lives of fellow passengers, my reaction reflects the severity. I have called police on many occasion when witnessing a crime, or suspicious behavior and helped them in situations twice restraining people until the officer could cuff them. I would still do now, despite my option of Uk police being at an all-time low. I wouldn’t raise my blood pressure getting worked up over someone trying to get an unauthorized upgrade, but I would help crew if they became abusive or violent. Perspectives and appropriate reactions

[stevescoots]

Swiss, I have deliberately moved a bag of someone doing that before, some gold card carrying twonk who was first to board yet sat right at the back of the cabin. I moved it about 6 rows back. Unfortunately, now with no hold allowance for Y in ET the cabins now resemble those on US flights with carry ones wholly inappropriate for the space.

Babushka, of course theft is less of an offence from a bomber……that’s like saying doing a runner from a restaurant is just as bad as blowing the thing up with 100 people inside, or bankers rigging libor is the same as me finding a tenner in the street and deciding not to hand it to the police. By that rationale in countries where capital punishment exists then no matter the crime it’s the gallows. How very middle ages. It’s all about perspectives. Suspected as a bomber is by the very definition not a crime, it’s not a crime to be suspected of anything.
As for complaining to the cabin crew, well there is clearly a very big difference between someone sitting in a seat they have not paid for or doing something suspicious that could endanger the lives of fellow passengers, my reaction reflects the severity. I have called police on many occasion when witnessing a crime, or suspicious behavior and helped them in situations twice restraining people until the officer could cuff them. I would still do now, despite my option of Uk police being at an all-time low. I wouldn’t raise my blood pressure getting worked up over someone trying to get an unauthorized upgrade, but I would help crew if they became abusive or violent. Perspectives and appropriate reactions

[FDOS_UK]

openfly – 14/12/2015 04:25 GMT

I have sympathy with your point of view and you might have noted my comment earlier in the thread:

“Just out of interest (and I am not trying to start a fight) what is the difference between someone using all of the facilities they haven’t paid for (seat etc) and part (loo.)”

Once standards start to slip, then brand reputation suffers fairly quickly.

At the moment, BA is coining it in from fortress Heathrow and unlikely to be too concerned, in fact there seems to be a relentless focus on cost cutting (which is threatening the morale of the cabin crew and I can understand why RFerguson and others avoid confrontation with pax – whats in it for them?) and little visible evidence of a customer oriented perspective.

All you can do is vote with your feet.

[TiredOldHack]

rferguson – I remember a Delta captain describing to Doctor TOH and myself (by a swimming pool in a hotel that housed aircrew), how he had two biz class passengers fighting over the same locker space.

“It’s my locker,” yelled one.

“No, it’s my locker,” insisted the other one.

He said he strode down the aisle, put himself between the two of them, and said firmly. “No. It’s my locker.”

[rferguson]

@ openfly. Regarding the post about WTP passengers using F toilets of course it’s a no-no. Saying that…..if i’m in the First Class galley in the middle of the flight, both First Class lavs are empty and someone pops through the curtain I wouldn’t give them marching orders. I’d say politely ‘just to let you know for next time – the toilets for your cabin are behind you. These are for the First Class cabin’.

The fact is sometimes people do these things innocently. Us crew and regular flyers are so used to the aircraft environment and it’s etiquette that I think we forget sometimes that it is extremely alien to others. I had a very sweet lady from WTP sat on the J/K side come up to First to use the loos on my last flight and her explanation was ‘there were curtains in the front and back of the cabin so I wasn’t sure which way to go’. And I looked at the lady and thought ‘yup that is something my mum who travels once a year would do/say’. It’s the same with Club Kitchen….let’s face it…most ‘Average Joe’s don’t concern themselves with airline branding. ‘Club World’. ‘World Traveller Plus’. I hardly ever hear those terms used by passengers. ‘Business’ yes. ‘Economy Plus’, ‘Economy Premium’…you get the idea. So when they walk into a galley and there is a big snack station with almost no ‘Club World’ branding why wouldn’t someone help themself to a snack?

But back to the original post – these little things are bound to happen when airlines chose to do things like plonk their premium economy cabin in between First and Business (a Virgin friend tells me similar things go on on the U/D of their 747’s which are 50/50 W/J). We generally tolerate this kind of stuff because we know it’s usually not to be deceptive.

[AnthonyDunn]

@rferguson – 14/12/2015 11:34 GMT

Do you know what, the more I read your comments and the obvious sense and rationality that emanates from just about all of your postings, you really are wasted. Any chance we can persuade you to put in for WW’s replacement? §:-)

Oh, and greetings from Yangon.

[FDOS_UK]

“Saying that…..if i’m in the First Class galley in the middle of the flight, both First Class lavs are empty and someone pops through the curtain I wouldn’t give them marching orders.”

This would not happen on Emirates (obviously, as they don’t have premium economy), because they defend their premier classes from economy interlopers. They also guard F from J in the same way.

This comment is not intended as a criticism of RFerguson, but the discretion he describes does not exist on EK/EY in my experience. I won’t comment on QR, as I’ve only taken a few flights with them.

[openfly]

FDOS-UK Agree!

I get the impression, particularly with the young BA Midfleet crew, that they don’t appear to have any concept of the various products and how much the pax actually pay for their seats…particularly in F and J. Lovely inexperienced crew, but a quite a lot of professionalism missing.

[MartynSinclair]

So a natural question is, why don’t BA / Airlines brand the classes in the aircraft. Why not have a sign saying FIRST CLASS only, CLUB KITCHEN FOR BUSINESS CLASS… NO ENTRY FOR ECONOMY..

Or do management feel it would all be perceived negatively?

[SimonS1]

Interesting point FDOS – I do sense that on BA there is plenty of buck passing as staff follow the line of least resistance.

For example it is easy for passengers to reach the gate with excess hand baggage as few staff along the way will challenge them and it will be left to the crew on the plane to sort.

People get away with priority boarding when not entitled as few gate staff (and there is a long thread on FT about it) will challenge those not entitled.

Travellers get away with using the first class toilets as it is easier to turn a blind eye and not challenge them.

Compare and contrast to EK who are a lot stricter about it. I was on one occasion turned away from the premium check ins in Dubai at a time I was silver and ‘invited’ to use the regular counters.

[Londonfrog]

Couldn’t care less

[FDOS_UK]

SimonS1 – 15/12/2015 18:20 GMT

Agreed. It seems to me that there are three specific drivers (1) over complicated processes, e.g. yellow tags, green tags, when easyJet manage without any (2) lack of desire to stand up to customers with ‘tyrant’ behaviour and (3) low morale amongst swathes of the workforce (which I can understand, given the way the company has been cost cutting, especially on the wages front.)

I hardly ever fly BA anymore, as they don’t fly anywhere but London from my local airport and frankly I really don’t miss the experience – I like flying EK on long haul and pretty much don’t care on short, Ryanair will do fine for a 90 minute hop, as Dragonpass takes care of the lounges and the flight is a bus ride.

[CXDiamond]

Well, if ever there was a thread that flushed out the wets and liberals it was this one 😉

[CathayLoyalist2]

CX Diamond be careful. When I made a reference to politics i.e. Lib Dems two posters clearly felt prickly about my mildly bringing in politics. I wonder if the “not my problem brigade” would be comfortable with a neighbour ignoring a burglar breaking into their home It’s theft whichever way you look at it i.e. taking something you haven’t paid for and you don’t own it.

[Schaible]

I don’t interfere in other people’s business. But I do believe a self-upgrade into a higher cabin class is imprudent. Where would we go if every Economy passenger just jumps up and runs to Business? It would be leading to anarchy on board…. I have witnessed those attempts several times and never seen anybody successful without payment or upgrade voucher. Nothing comes for free in life!

[Author]

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