[Swissdiver]

Wrong, millionsofmiles.
If you are Gold, you access First class at LHR respectively Senator at FRA.
If you are a first class passenger, you are respectively accessing T5 Concorde and FRA 1st class.
If you are neither, you access a “basic” lounge. And FRAs are all crap with only one exception.

[millionsofmiles]

All are crap?

Have you ever been in A Senator lounge, or an LH F lounge anywhere or has the mouldy BA food damaged your view?

[KSHaggag]

LH biz only lounges used to be crap I agree but they have overhauled a large nbr of them and nowadays among the big three in Europe ,LH stands out normally F miles away in the air and on the ground ..BA F is still cramped compared to LH …premium cabins ibelieve are all about space ..Am not a fan Of thecocooning trend nowAdays under the name of privacy ..in biz ,LH is overhauling while BA is simply not ,I give BA thumbs up only on the JFK LCY product and on my beloved Openskies brand …
BA ought to rethink it’s premium cabins ..high time they did ….let s see what AF will unveil in Jan and April 2014 .

[Swissdiver]

Millionsofmiles,
I’ve tried all the regular business class lounges at FRA T1 and LHR T5 over the past 12-18 months! At FRA, with only one exception, all regular business class lounges (so not gold not first) are crap (packed, sausage and beer smell, horrible food, no decent wine, no massage, well, nothing!).

[Swissdiver]

KSHaggag,
Business class seats: the brand new LH one, not yet fully implemented, is below modern average while BAs still leads the way in Europe, followed by LX. We’ll see soon what Kl and AF will propose.

[KSHaggag]

With all due respect ,I cannot see why BA should be a leader in Europe for biz class travel…the seats are flat horizontal yes but some ppl don t feel ok plunging into a seat instead of lying down ,moreover the lounge standards are compromised and the product in the air itself is showing it’s age big time ..nothing new since the start of the century …moreover the fleet is old …yep Dreamliners are arriving but the oldish 777-200s are rattling ….crew? With BA it is still a gambling game ….if the crew are not in the mood which is quite a regular occurrence you hardly see their face when they serve you …have had the experience on night flights from the Gulf area to London….LH crew are now being trained rigorously to be pleasant and smile ….they are abiding ….I admit .

[FormerlyDoS]

The best business class seats, in Europe, in my opinion are the new Air Berlin and Iberia seats. These all offer direct aisle access and nice large TV screens that you can watch all the way onto the ground, as they are fixed in the seat shell.

Sadly I have to concur with KSHaggag about the game of roulette which is BA crew, I have been ‘lost’ through the night on a flight from the Gulf, too, call bell ignored, etc.

[millionsofmiles]

BA is like a religion for some:
Whatever happens, BA is right and the best (Like mouldy rotten food helps your immune system..such kind of arguments, lol)

I think, the majority of travellers decides with their bookings, and that why BA has problems.

[KSHaggag]

Formerly DOS,

Thanks for the valuable hint …I have been longing for sampling Iberia business plus product even the older one but will definitely do ..the older seat looks roomier ..no???
Air Berlin I call it the mysterious ,shy airline ….where is their proper marketing???moreover their fares online in biz class look horrendously out of the market !!!! do they need new customers???? I wonder …
Have u tried the Magnifica Class on Alitalia?? Conventional classy elegant service plus superb food …I hope they make it thru the crisis …

[KSHaggag]

Talking about Lufthansa and its younger sisters ,Brussels Airlines seems to be offering a decent product in their new biz class on the A333 ….any feedback ,Gentlemen?

[FormerlyDoS]

KSH

Strangely enough, I am considering AZ for a trip to AUH, at the moment, just weighing up if the cash injection will see them through the next months.

The old IB Business Plus seat was very good, IMHO and very spacious.

The new seat (pretty much the same as EY’s) is more private, but not as roomy – it does have direct aisle access from every seat, though.

[Swissdiver]

FDoS,
Funny, never considered AB as a long haul flights option… Might in the future.

Millionsofmiles,
No religion for me. Am premium on all three alliances. And having a smaller airport as base, I have in most of the cases to go via a hub. So decision will be a mix of airline, hub and schedule, and price. Why often BA? Because T5 is for me the best hub in Europe (ahead of AMS) and BA has the best business class seat. Cherry on the cake: B747’s upper deck. But next long haul flight is LH via horrendous FRA on an awful A330… Pragmatism they call it…

[pdtraveller]

FDOS….AZ …..hopefully a typo……if not ….good luck with that!!!:)

As for the issue at hand. On reason LH has a superb F product is their refusal to discount the fares. They, CX and SQ are carriers I have yet to find discounted F fares and consequently, whilst I think they offer fabulous products, they do not get a lot of my business.

The flip side is that club world plus is regularly discounted and given away either via one of the monthly DFS type sales or via Avios upgrades or the £499 upgrades at check in.

This strategy by BA, combined with their strangle hold on the LHR market means it is successful and whilst that might grate with many it is undeniable. BA are doing well from their home base in both F and J.

I will no longer pay £5000-£8000 to fly the Atlantic in F it is madness and even I I were spoon fed my caviar by nubile crew I really could not justify this expense.

However £2000 ex EU plus upgrade via Avios is a different matter altogether and therein lies the issue. People are simply not prepared to pay the real fare anymore unless they have so much cash it makes no difference……..and they I expect do not use commercial airlines.

Airlines only make money in business class and that is where the real battles will lie in future years. CX AA and others lead the way with direct aisle access fully flat beds. That in my view will become the norm and high density products might survive but only if they are deeply discounted.

It is hard to see however how such a strategy could last longer term especially when offered within the same alliances and on parallel routes.

[FormerlyDoS]

Swissdiver

Before you try AB, you might wish to read my review.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/Air-Berlin-A330-200-%28Config.-2%29-Business-1

I would not whole heartedly recommend the airline, but on the other hand I’ve been on worse.

[KSHaggag]

Formerly DOS,

Thanks,,..yeppp..I expected the old Iberia seat to be roomy ..I can tell from the looks…for me ,business class is all about spaaaaaace ! I am not really a fan of those new trends of cocooning under the name of privacy .airlines nowadays are just opting for designs whereby you plunge into a cocoon and on a flight that lasts 14 hours or more this is for me rather depressing .
I love cabins offering much much space in front of my eyes …that s why the upcoming KLM World business class seat and cabin seem a winning formula for me .
I don t think many people including British themselves will object at the fact that LH catering on board in premium cabins has taken the airline to greater heights of supremacy beating most other European airlines including BA…well,I do respect that food preference is a matter of taste and culture .I personally am a fan of Mediterranean cuisine offered by the likes of Alitalia Iberia Turkish and sometimes Air France ….Swiss though has always been refined in its offering ..

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