[londonlad]

handbag

But it begs the question, should a union or indeed the companies employees be deciding what uniform they wear?

BA pays it’s staff to be a uniformed member of their staff. Should BA not decide which uniform their staff wear?

[BigDog.]

It begs more the question why BA don’t spend this effort improving important things such as their hard product and service consistency. This hat business, from a customer’s perspective is nothing but a wasteful exercise in naval gazing.

In its history BA have had uniforms with hats, without hats, what are they now trying to prove? Frankly I couldn’t give a monkey’s chuff.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ba+uniform+history&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=YnlwUfrQMIqA4gSOh4Fg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1036&bih=665

It astounds me how inept BA management are – start focussing on the things that matter, not cosmetic frivolities.

If they wish to be serious about crew consistency in appearance then maybe start with male make-up, either all males wear it or none. If BA are happy to be flexible with male make-up then hats are a no brainer.

[handbag]

londonlad – 18/04/2013 22:45 GMT

I really do not think it is appropriate for me to comment on this.

All I will say is that if a Company issues an Employment Guide and expects their Employees to follow it, then what is written in it should be adhered to by both sides.

An Employment Guide is the bible that we use for all matters large and small from everything to sickness policy to disciplinary procedures.

Certain policies in the Employment Guide (contractual policies) are considered to be directly incorporated into the contracts of employment of all employees.

There are many things written in the Employment guide, that I think are to my benefit and many that are think are not reasonable. That is not the point. It is my contract and that is it.

[londonlad]

Ok. I’m sure the eventual outcome will be if you don’t want to wear the hat, you won’t fly the new aircraft.

[handbag]

Working on the new aircraft is currently on a volunteer basis. Many Crew for various reasons, have not chosen to volunteer. I personally will not be volunteering. I like the aircraft I am on and from previous experience I like to get the teething process out of the way, before I join a Fleet. So in the same way that some Crew prefer WW or Euro, some want to go on the new aircraft and some don’t.

For me I cannot see that the uniform contractual issue of the hat is connected.

[londonlad]

Perhaps because its BA that pays the salary every month, and it’s they who should decide the uniform their staff wear.

[handbag]

BigDog. – 18/04/2013 22:52 GMT

Contractual issues aside and the rights or wrongs of Cabin Crew objections, if I was to be issued with a hat and lose it, my current replacement cost is over £63 for hat and box. I am presuming that this must be near the cost price, as it would seem unreasonable to make a vast profit from lost uniform.

If that is multiplied by the amount of Crew that will need one, that is a lot of money that is possibly going to be being spent on hats .

Would passengers prefer the money spent on hats or product?

[londonlad]

handbag

“Contractual issues aside and the rights or wrongs of Cabin Crew objections, if I was to be issued with a hat and lose it, my current replacement cost is over £63 for hat and box. I am presuming that this must be near the cost price, as it would seem unreasonable to make a vast profit from lost uniform”

Mixed fleet seem to manage on half your salary, so i’m sure you’d manage just fine.

[BigDog.]

Londonlad – grow up. And if you are a BA pilot, have a word with Walsh and tell him to focus on things that matter to the customer… and that hats are at the bottom of the list.

[FormerlyDoS]

Big Dog

+1

Also, if Londonlad is really a pilot, his attitude is not great for CRM.

[handbag]

Londonlad
Mixed fleet seem to manage on half your salary, so i’m sure you’d manage just fine.

Please re read my post as you have totally misunderstood my point and although I have re read , I am not sure how to rephrase.
Yes of course I would manage fine and I am unlikely to lose a hat. I was trying to say that I estimated the cost of the hat to the Company, through what I know they charge for a replacement.

I was estimating that it cost the company a little under £63 each and that was a lot of money. I then asked what passengers would prefer that money spent on.

From my very first response to you at 2237, when you asked if a company was allowed to make the decision, I said that I did not wish to have a heated discussion or express my opinion. I was trying to explain that sometimes is it is not that straight forward. I do not expect most people thought that uniform consultation was written into our contracts.

At no stage have I said if I would wear a hat or not or whether the Unions should decide or not..

I have merely tried to explain,
1. I did not say BA should not decide
2.. I said why it is being challenged – as it is part of all uniformed staffs written Contract – not just cabin crew.
3. What the approx. cost is
and finally ask if passengers want the money spent that way.

I am not going to make any further point on this matter, as I feel that I have explained the logic of why it is being challenged. I do not wish to discuss the rights or wrongs on either side and lastly, I was hoping to be informative rather than inflaming a situation and I am not achieving this , which is not something I intended to do. The direction this is going in and how this thread is now making me feel, is one of the reasons that it makes people reluctant to post on here .

[SimonS1]

You make the points in a very coherent and calm way handbag.

I am not a union member but I have a contract and agreement with my employer as well and I would not expect my employer to start making changes unilaterally and without any discussion.

I’m sure if BA asked its customers the majority wouldn’t be bothered about the hats, only the quality of the flight experience and VFM.

[handbag]

SimonS1
Thank you. That is exactly the point that I was trying to get across. Think you have managed to put it better than me.

[FormerlyDoS]

handbag

From my perspective, the hats are a waste of money, which would be better invested in some maintenance on older and shabbier aircraft.

The hats are completely putting the horse before the cart and your point about x0,000 x £63 is spot on.

I also agree with SImonS1 about unilateral imposition, if consultation is required in a contract, then consultation should occur.

If BA did not wish to retain such agreements, Walsh should have terminated all existing contracts and re-hired under new ones at the time of the strike – a company cannot have its cake and eat it.

[lloydah]

Excellent posts handbag. You can see exactly how Union/Employer disputes start when the mind set is like that of certain posters here. Whoever “thinks” they are in charge needs to be mindful of the opinions and feelings of the other side. Better for everyone if contentious issues are dealt with intelligently rather than with the steamroller effect.

[Author]

Posts