[Alasdair]

Being the mature individual I am, good luck to you Stephen re your BA spending frenzy.

In response to your rather inappropriate little comment, BA has a Unionised workforce, and in this country and indeed the EU, this must be recognised. There are also industrial laws in place to ensure workers rights are upheld.

Therefore, if BA wanted to do best by its workers then BA should accept Unites offer to sit and negotiate. Viability will thereby follow.

[VintageKrug]

Yet more distraction about awards to obfuscate the arguments.

BA has made a generous final offer; Unite agreed it, BASSA and the formerly moderate CC89 refused to ballot its members (egged on by a cohort of infiltrators from the millionaire-backed Socialist Workers Party) and denied its membership the opportunity settle.

Despite this, over 1,000 BA cabin crew accepted the offer, which includes a 2.9% pay rise. I would encourage fellow passengers to have a read of it and see if they believe it is unreasonable, especially when one considers the alternatives available to BA:

http://www.uniteba.com/ESW/Files/151010_Revised_Offer_Collectivev6.doc

While I have a clearly articulated position here, I am not as you suggest, biased in my assessment; I have no vested interested in the outcome of the settlement except as a passenger and investor. I have always backed up my assertions where possible with linked references, in marked contrast to other posters.

If cash is needed why are BA banging their head against Crew and wasting so damn much of it?

Because it is cheaper to ensure BA can provide continuity of service than it is to suffer operational issues during a strike, and much less expensive to bear the expense now to ensure BA is not afflicted with this sort of anarchic militancy ever again.

BASSA, by whom you mean Unite of course, are RESPONDING to BA’s threats to undermine their membership and therefore the cause (of money wasted on litigation and loss of revenue lies with BA).

Please set out these non-specific “threats” BA has made to BASSA’s membership. I have never seen any, whatsoever.

I use Unite and BASSA very carefully; they both have widely divergent views on this strike, and that is part of the reason it has taken so long to settle. While Unite has the ultimate authority to authorise a strike, it also bears the financial and legal risk for an illegal/unprotected ballot/strike and so it’s important to draw the distinction between the two.

I have been reading threads all over this forum and all over the internet, it indeed does seem to me that premium passengers have no intention of flying BA in the future and taking their business elsewhere. So that gradual recovery you mentioned could indeed be substantially greater were it not for these silly games.

There is no available evidence to support this supposition; while passenger numbers fell during the last strike, and likely would fall temporarily during a future strike, most high yield business pax book within a week or so of flying, and that business, being flexible, comes back pretty fast after any action. Against a background of a very shallow economic recovery, that is cause for celebration, and disproves the assertion that passengers are abandoning BA because of BASSA’s threats.

On the other hand, if you believe the mere threat of a strike materially damages revenues, how exactly will such a loss of revenues at BA help Cabin Crew in their fight for whatever it is they are fighting for (as I truly do not know what that is anymore)? Unless of course it is simply an anarchistic approach on the part of Holley and his BASSAmentalists which seeks to take revenge on BA for sacking them/him for not turning up to work:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23920278-ba-sacked-man-who-took-time-off-for-union-job.do

Re the strike, you are not informed of what form it might take, or indeed if it will actually go ahead, so all that expense preparing volunteers is one huge waste of time for a company in the midst of major cost-cutting.

There are two inferences here. First that crew will announce strikes, then turn up for work, and the second intimation that a “work to rule” or secondary actionmight be contemplated.

Both have been provided for by BA, and the secondary action option is illegal. When BASSA last tried to initiate secondary action last year (“Blindgate”), it was firmly slapped down by Unite:

http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/100805.BA.Repudiation.pdf

The legality of this strike will come out in the end, as it did last year when BA lost its case against Unite.

Um, BA actually won its initial action re: the legality of imposing crew number reductions (if you remember that was the reason behind the initial strike ballot):

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Business/British-Airways-Cabin-Crew-Lose-Court-Case-Trying-To-Stop-Cuts-By-Airline/Article/201002315552983

It also won its initial action setting out that the first ballot was illegal, back in December 2009.

Unite received some stark legal advice last week, which will certainly give it, and its membership, pause for thought.

But, why should it come to all this? I am just saying, why not just compromise and make BA a pleasurable flying experience.

BA remains a pleasurable flying experience; be it with Mixed Fleet or with Legacy Crew.

Compromise is a good thing, and this is evident in the final offer made by BA; BASSA has never articulated what it would take to end the strike, and even its five opening gambits for resumption of negotiations are a bridge too far for BA’s backers and would never be permitted as initial opening compromises.

The business continues to function effectively despite the impotent strike threats, and all BA has to do is sit back and let BASSA lead its membership over the brink; a real shame both for its membership (who on the whole are moderate people) and for the cause of unionism which will suffer immeasurably as a consequence of BASSA’s incompetent running of this strike.

Any news on whether BASSA is providing transparent accounts to its membership setting out where their £2m annual subs were spent?

“Strikers are deluded if they think they can win”. And that’s not my opinion, that’s the opinion of Derek Simpson, Unite General Secretary:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=20902

[Alasdair]

Very defensive for one with no vested interest!

[StephenLondon]

But, Alasdair, VK has an interest – he is an investor in BA, and thus it is to his advantage to be apprised of the facts pertaining to the robustness of the company with whom he has placed his hard-earned money.

As VK has said, it is in BA’s interest to deal with Unions. They don’t have the time or resources to handle thousands of individual contracts. They are waiting for the Unions to come to the table. Sadly, the Unions didn’t even manage to present the last offer to their members…they once again did just as I stated above – fingers in ears and No No No! That is not coming to the table to have meaningful discussion. How often were BA sitting at the Renaissance Heathrow waiting for the Unions to turn up?

Thanks for your best wishes, Alasdair on my spending. Long-haul trips to the US, Middle East and Asia, plus some Euro-travel, all in premium cabins with a spend well into five figures. I’ve not put my credit card down so quickly and with such pleasure.

(As for awards, I’d sooner trust 16 judges who are known, respected and admired for their independence in the travel industry, than hordes of anonymous votes from people who have been wooed, cajoled and invited to vote by service providers – but based on what? BTA, at least, publish the criteria and reasons behind the awards, not making it a popularity contest).

[Travellator]

However getting back to the nitty gritty for people travelling soon.

Action must be called for by next Friday 11th, minimum notice 7 days so something could happen on 18th or earlier if declared sooner – just in time for the half term school break. Huummm !

[VintageKrug]

But the issue is, Travellator, who will actually be affected by any possible strike?

No one flying from London City.

No-one flying from London Gatwick.

No-one flying exHeathrow longhaul.

The only people who might be affected are those flying shorthaul, with Domestic services being most affected, and *most* European destinations being served at least once per day.

It would be an impotent strike, possibly unprotected, and won’t have any effect whatsoever in encouraging a better deal than that already on the table for Cabin Crew.

It would:

1. Make it easier for BA to legally dismiss crew who withdraw their labour

2. Justify the continued investment in Volunteer Cabin Crew

3. Provide further need to increase recruitment onto Mixed Fleet

4. Possibly expose Unite to further legal liabilty to compensate BA for monies lost as a consequence of calling a strike, potentially bankrupting the Union.

In many ways, when you take into account the above points, it might in fact be in BA’s interests for there to be a strike.

[Travellator]

I do appreciate that BA will attempt to run all services. I am a very loyal BA customer.

I am due to fly CE, my experiences of this last year were well documented on this site. OK I got there with anoher airline chartered by BA and back but no CE free boarding and poor cabin crew.

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

Actually, I think Alasdair has sort of given the game away, with his inferences of ‘who knows what BASSA might end up doing’ – the power BASSA has (probably the only power left to it) is the threat.

Uncertainty and doubt are BASSA’s only industrial weapons.

In that sense, announcing strike action would be counter-productive, because it removes the threat – the ‘sword of Damocles’, as VK put it.

BASSA is very happy to keep everyone guessing, and I think that is probably now the only way it thinks it can have any impact on BA, because it knows an actual strike would go against its own interests.

And as for those people suggesting strikes during the wedding or the Olympics – any such action by BASSA would simply be the end for it, as the public would be out in the streets looking for the BASSA blackmailers responsible for trashing Britain’s reputation in the world community.

Of course, by the time of the Olympics (and possibly even of the wedding), BASSA will be long consigned to the dustbin of historical stupidity…..

[Alasdair]

Out of 13300 crew, well over 10000 are represented by Unite and seemingly continue to appreciate the support given by their Union. This is an extremely sizeable group. They simply cannot be ignored by BA nor its investors regardless if they wish their grievances would evaporate in a puff of smoke.

Krug throws out to this discussion many falsities and much propaganda including the fact this upcoming strike may be unprotected. Also, he believes this huge investment covering possible strike action is warranted. Just as the vast amounts of revenue thrown away in 2010 (not to mention the blunders of BA management including price fixing and T5 etc). And I thought he is an investor with vested interests.

This IA is as current and almost as potent as a year ago – extremely rare for any single case Union led IA. There are many internal rifts well documented in the press, the only reason this is not given more air time is probably due to BA’s immense media backing, with a conservative slant.

This could all be solved so that the charming Crew on BA can get back to doing their wonderful professional job on board without feeling so much antagonism from its management. It is clear they want what’s best for passengers and not have to strike, but the majority of Unites members have said they are more than willing if BA does not come to the table with their interests at heart.

We all know managers have taken their interests to heart of late:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/oct/27/willie-walsh-gets-12-per-cent-pay-rise

[CallMeIshmael]

Phelan – your prior bilious posts indicate you would be more at home in a Jerry Springer audience – GO AWAY.

[MartynSinclair]

Hi JohnPhelanAustralia – I think that in most peoples eyes BASSA are already in the “dustbin of historical stupidity…..”

My hope remains that if your assumption is correct about the dustbin and VK’s “final days” quote is also accurate, the threat of strike action, in fact any further action by BASSA is so remote that its not worth worrying about.

Lets hope so…………………………its already been 3 days since VK’s quote!

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

Oh dear Ishmael …. when people say things you don’t like, you always resort to personal insults, don’t you? Sad.

Why don’t you do all the rest of us a favour and take your own directional advice??

Oh, and two etiquette issues:
1. if you’re going to insult me using my real name, why don’t you have the fortitude to tell us what your real name is?
2. if you’re going to refer to someone by their surname, as you’ve done here, it’s good manners to put “Mr” (or as appropriate) in front of the name.

[CallMeIshmael]

Spewing bile whilst making ones point not only demeans the poster it is unnecessarily offensive, your Jerry Springer audience mentality is not wanted here.

[VintageKrug]

JohnPhelanAustralia’s perspective is welcome here, and no less valid than anyone else’s.

My posts have provided plenty of evidence this strike might be unprotected; it is clearly linked to previous action, and there is a strong suggestion this is the advice Unite received from its QC last weekend.

I have seen no evidence-based analysis from any poster here suggesting this further action is protected.

Either way, there is nothing to stop BASSA educating those who have voted to strike what the risks of unprotected action might be, and why it believes this action is indeed protected.

Instead, BASSA has not set out the difference between protected and unprotected action, has not justified why it believes its action is indeed protected, and has reportedly banned all discussion of the matter on its own internal forum.

Does this suggest confidence on that matter? I think not.

If all people have in their arsenal is personal insults about “bilous” posts, then that evidences the bankruptcy of their argument.

It’s my personal opinion that the best thing that could happen now for both BA and the longer term interests of its passengers is for a strike to be called and carried out; this would demonstrate BASSA’s impotence, further isolate Unite in the opinion of the public (as well as many other Unite members volunteering as VCC) and allow those crew who truly cannot bring themselves to sign the Final Offer (2.9% pay rise, guarantee of maintenance of existing T&Cs) to be identified and encouraged to leave British Airways for another employment where they feel they would be better provided for.

A real shame for both those moderate cabin crew caught in the middle of this, and also for the cause of Unionism which will be scarred by this bungled engagement, and which might bring on even more strict Industrial Relations legislation.

Here’s one of the “falsities and propoganda” contained in my posts:

“Strikers are deluded if they think they can win”.

That’s not my opinion, that’s the opinion of Derek Simpson, Unite General Secretary. It is neither false nor is it propaganda. It’s one of the many uncomfortable facts some who post here fail to address. Oh, and just in case you need it, here’s the source, and hardly one which you would expect me to reference:

http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art.php?id=20902

Any news on getting visibility of the accounts for the £2m annual subs paid by BA’s cabin crew to BASSA….?

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

Ishmael says: “Spewing bile whilst making ones point not only demeans the poster it is unnecessarily offensive”.

Quite. So why do you do it ?

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