[CallMeIshmael]

You may be in luck Krug and get an IT assistant who can put you straight on the internet and sock puppets, or a baggage handler who can explain why BA are so good at losing luggage or the customer service person can explain why service enquiries take so long… is it because the people who are meant to be doing the jobs are away pretending to be cabin crew?

At least the snow clearers won’t be caught short in summer, or if it is their manager make sure you tell him/her to get them back for Winter duties this time though.

Or you could be served by a pilot working as crew, but as they are so tired nowadays you’ll not get any service at all….

http://www.skyport-heathrow.co.uk/2011/04/the-big-interview-balpa-genera.html

or they are abusive

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/06/08/ba-pilots-post-shocking-foul-mouthed-rants-on-facebook-over-cabin-work-after-breaking-strike-115875-22317731/

so you complain.. but hey there is no service person to complain to as they are working as VCC, besides the complaint can’t be logged as the person who fixes the IT system is …. somewhere else.

Other airlines have dedicated crew, experienced in delivering exemplary service and resolving the myriad of issues which occur in flight. BA and yourself Krug, clearly find it acceptable to crew their cabins with wannabes who will have 60 hours flying experience per year, then charge a premium price for it and expect to compete with Emirates, Singapore etc.

And don’t whinge when you do not get a share dividend, again, as the cash has been spent kitting out, recruiting, training, certifying, refreshing the wannabes for 8 days work pa.

Premium Brand with rookie callow execution – a winning strategy.

Genuine business travellers would not sanction such service.

Has your plumber fixed your stair lift?

[Hippocampus]

It is disappointing, but not surprising, that some continue to insult regular posters with the usual diet of finger-pointing at others.

The VCC programme was one of the good things to come from this dispute. BA has often been held back by a silo mentality and the attitude that cabin crew is a separate empire, detached from the rest of the BA, is one of the many reasons this dispute has unfolded the way it did.

Although BASSA has sought (quite cleverly – one of the few things it is actually good at) to portray this entire dispute as an orchestrated plot to “bust” BASSA, it is worth remembering that the VCC initiative was only launched after BASSA announced 12 days of industrial action over the Christmas 2009 period (which was stopped by the High Court because Lizanne Malone incorrectly advised members taking voluntary redundancy to vote).

Although VCC have been subjected to relentless sniping since the launch of the programme with many snide remarks about being “wannabes” who want to “play” cabin crew for a day, I have heard many good reports about their interest in understanding the role of cabin crew and their dedication and enthusiasm on board.

The other benefit is that means that no longer will a group of pernicious self-serving militants be able to point a gun at BA’s head in the unforgivable way BASSA did with its crass “12 Strikes Of Christmas” campaign.

The VCC programme is effectively what cabin crew, through the union representatives, asked for.

[CallMeIshmael]

How much does the VCC program cost pa? – Thorough Vetting, Initial training, Uniforms, ongoing recency and SEP training, absentee cover, certification, management of the process etc..

How is someone who executes a role 8 days per year going to be performance managed as per the new regime?

Surely if as much investment and effort was put into improving employee relations there would be a far better outcome.

I know the laws of rugby, played and I would be dedicated, interested and enthused to play for Leicester Tigers – based on your logic hippo am now eligible to be called up for 1 training session then play 1 or 2 matches a season. Go sit on the bench Castrogiovanini, I am replacing you – temporarily. How vacuous.

The hamfisted, pugnacious leadership style of WW continues to cost BA dear.

[Hippocampus]

How much does it cost? Who knows? But as it mitigates the cost of industrial action and provides for more flexibility when BASSA’s restrictive practices stifle recovery of the operation from disruption, I would suggest it has paid for itself. Plus there are the intangible benefits of more cross departmental working.

Yet again you point the finger at Willie Walsh. How telling that it is only when Unite’s back is up against the wall where it is faced with a choice of doing a deal with BA or calling unprotected strike action does Unite start negotiating with BA (with Unite itself sidelining the key BASSA protaganists). And of course, now that Len McCluskey has been elected as General Secretary he no longer needs to use this dispute to make a name for himself. BASSA members have well and truly been sold down the river.

[VintageKrug]

Would that be the River Nile? 😉

[Alasdair]

No denial what-so-ever. Ever since the inception of “Columbus” there were going to be changes to cabin crew in some shape or form – BA management have been clear in their determination to abuse their greatest asset.

Through mass determination and strong support of their elected representative union body BASSA and Unite, the company has had to remain weary of how severe their proposal to implement working changes would be.

They already have the lowest operating costs for Crew across all major European airlines… What do they really want? A replica of the Easyjet or Ryanair models? It goes without saying, you get what you pay for, and this includes product standard across the board.

[Hippocampus]

Talks are ongoing and it seems that talks will carry on next week.

Alasdar – Stop wallowing in self-pity.

[VintageKrug]

Can The Wallower provide any evidence of his assertion that “BA already has the lowest cabin crew operating costs in Europe”? Thought not. Yet more unsubstantiated twaddle.

It’s good to see that negotiations are ongoing; BA has demonstrated its ability to negotiate successfully with both Unite and other Union representatives at BA over the past few years (pensions settlement, ground staff at T5, BALPA Settlement to name but three), and it’s good to see that now Keith Williams’ team is able to sort out a deal with Unite’s representatives.

Let’s hope the troublesome branches are brought to heel, both for the sake of the BASSA/CC89 cabin crew who are currently forgoing a pay rise of up to 3% which has already been granted to non-unionised cabin crew.

Personally, I’d quite like to see a strike, if only to give vent to the poisonous militancy which has enveloped BASSA, and expose the strike as unprotected, impotent and potentially costly for the Union. Thankfully, it’s only Unite and not the branches which can authorise strike action.

I am surprised that negotiations will continue next week; unless Unite announces Strike dates by Friday 6th May, I understood the ballot mandate lapsed….unless another extension is in the works….

A settlement is in the interests of all Cabin Crew and ultimately is what we all hope for as passengers.

[Tete_de_cuvee]

I understand the assertion was made by a Deutsche Bank aviation analyst and appeared in the Times Business Section 3-4 weeks ago. You will need a Times subscription to access it..

Once you find it I hope you will issue an apology.

VK you have been challenged many times, we are still waiting on your evidence to support your assertion concerning Captain Burkhill being badmouthed by BASSA. Again provide evidence or withdraw.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sunday-mirror/2008/04/27/captain-who-saved-152-lives-says-british-airways-have-betrayed-him-98487-20396282/

and whilst you are issuing apologies and retractions share with us the root cause of your perverse fixation with BASSA.

[VintageKrug]

Well, if you have the evidence from The Times, or even Deutsche, then please post a link. Otherwise it’s unsubstantiated.

The only Times link I can find says the EXACT opposite:

“BA Staff the Best Paid in the Industry”:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6957927.ece

Do you really think BA’s current cabin crew – including old contract CSDs on £56k++, and an AVERAGE pay of £29,900 – if they still feel the need to work full time – are the lowest paid most productive in the industry?

Just beggars belief!! 🙂

[VintageKrug]

So, more unsubstantiated rumour, Tete…

Talks going down to the wire, and the highly undemocratic Kangaroo “Branch Meetings” (note the plural, as the two Unite branches CC89 and BASSA still refuse to meet in the same room, even with their own membership) will be held on Thursday 12th May.

Meetings conveniently scheduled sequentially, with no system in place to avoid non-members turning up and voting, Unite’s General Membership actively encouraged to turn in (so you don’t even have to be a BA Cabin Crew to attend) and the potential for people to attend both meetings as they are not held at the same time.

Will the odious practice of involving children in such events be continued, as was the case last time:

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/94c16cff08.jpg

Highly likely the show of hands would reject the offer, regardless of the true feelings of the majority of Cabin Crew, especially given that they won’t have an opportunity to be briefed in advance of the negotiations, and no effort whatsoever has been made to flag up in advance what is no longer in contention and where the real sticking points lie.

Impossible for cabin crew to make a judgement on such a complex issue in such a short amount of time, and while most crew are fed up and want an honourable settlement, this doesn’t align with the Branch Secretary’s pension schedule, so he has no incentive to conclude the dispute especially as he no longer is employed by BA.

Much the best outcome from this would be an unprotected strike, allowing the militant faction to vent, while simultaneously exposing the fact that BASSA no longer has the power to disrupt the operation (all longhaul flights will run as normal), while those who take strike action risk dismissal for gross misconduct.

Thankfully, Holley excluded from negotiations with BA.

Mandate for strike action lapses Sunday 15th, so the seven days notice required would suggest a strike would be on the cards from Sunday 22nd.

Offer looks likely to closely resemble the October 2010 Offer, which includes a pay RISE:

——
Basic Pay
The company has offered a two year pay deal, effective from 1/2/2011 as follows:

Year one 2011/12 the company will increase base pay based on December 2010 RPI and capped at 2.9%

Year two 2012/13 the company will increase base pay based on December 2011 RPI and capped at 3%
——

http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/151010_Revised_Offer_Collectivev6.doc

Forward bookings still strong, so the public now aware of BASSA’s impotence and no longer put off booking, especially higher margin flexible and premium cabin bookings.

Will anyone notice a strike, except the badly led BASSA militants who will lose their jobs?

[Hippocampus]

BBC News reports that a deal has been reached between BA and the Unite leadership.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13368142

[Tete_de_cuvee]

Laughable Hippo – already posted nearly an hour ago but I guess it is a last desperate attempt to proliferate the “only 43%” support lie when the largest Crew union voted 83% in favour. The 83% was widely reported, your 43% – sorry but cannot find it anywhere but here. Am glad Mori, NOP and ERS don’t have your twisted view on ballots results.

Another loss for TBG.

What are you going to do now the ministry of fabrication, distortion, spin and deception no longer has this IA to work on? Though looking at history there will be another campaign for you along soon.

[Hippocampus]

Len McCluskey will be addressing tomorrow’s meeting at Bedfont and, I understand, holding a press conference afterwards.

BASSA > Latest News
TALKS UPDATE
May 11th, 2011 by admin

Just to let you all know that the talks have now concluded to the satisfaction of both parties and the details will be relayed to the branch tomorrow at Bedfont, at 11:00 as planned.
If the branch agrees, the negotiated settlement will be put to the full membership in a postal ballot. We accept it is frustrating for all those unable to attend tomorrow, but we have faith that the large numbers that will be there, will make the right decision and hope you too share that faith. We have all come a very long way together and it is important we maintain that trust and togetherness that has stood us in such good stead.
Len will also be in attendance.
Rgds to all – Duncan

[Hippocampus]

Tete,

You can make all the snide remarks and insinuations at VK and I all you like. I stand by the claims I have made in these threads:

– It is has been proven in court that BASSA and CC89 did not negotiate in good faith with BA (see unchallenged court evidence about the two branches refusing to sit in the same room)

– It has also been proven in court that BASSA’s cost savings proposals were not even a third of what they claimed

– All other BA workgroups agreed on cost savings without changes being “imposed”

– In three court decisions involving a total of five judges, it has been confirmed that BA was entirely justified in changing crewing levels

– BA gave Unite ample opportunity to negotiate over Mixed Fleet (see earlier proposals for matrices of routes etc)

– BASSA had been shown to be incompetent in this dispute (in two ballots sending papers to non-members, and in one of those Lizanne Malone gave incorrect advice on eligibility to ballot)

– BASSA has allowed lies to circulate during this dispute (such as the claim Justice Cox only gave BA an injunction because she was flying BA over Christmas which led to the unprecedented step of a public denial by the courts)

– BASSA has shown, in the eyes of any reasonable person, appalling bad taste and judgment (use of war imagery etc)

– BASSA has lost a huge amount of support since this dispute started (nearly 4,000 fewer Yes votes and approximately 3,000 members, of which only 900 could be due to members taking voluntary redundancy)

– The claim that crew have been sacked “just” for supporting their union is false.

All of the above can be supported by court judgments and other public sources.

Meanwhile, anyone who doesn’t follow the public line of BASSA has been subjected to a relentless stream of lies and half-truths whether they be BA management, pilots (why the pathological obsession with both?), VCC, Mixed Fleet crew, court judges…

And so the list goes on.

Whatever the contents of the offer and however this dispute is concluded, it has been a deeply misguided and divisive dispute, and this has all been self inflicted by BASSA.

[Author]

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