[FDOS_UK]

Nothing, but BA747Fan1 was asking if CF or LGW crew operated the babybusses on BA1/2/3/4.

[MrMichael]

I think the whole business class thing on every European Airline bar perhaps Turkish is a joke. The seats are the same as in economy, and the food generally on a par with long haul economy. On my regular LHR-MAD route I sometimes get a long haul IB plane with a proper business seat. The problem with that is if the first time you fly IB business and you end up in the big Airbus, you are major hacked off when on your return you get the little Airbus with an economy seat. The US and Asia seem to manage short haul business/first, why the heck can’t BA/IB/LH/AF/SK/etc. The whole concept of business class in Europe is wrong, it should not be called business but coach+.

[BEYbrit]

So did anyone work out what the BHX deal was?

[Poshgirl58]

As the original poster I’ve still not found out anything more. Nothing on official BHX website or the unofficial spotters site, so assume it’s charters. Will let you know if there’s an update.

[dutchyankee]

@MrMichael – 18/02/2016 19:16 GMT

‘I think the whole business class thing on every European Airline bar perhaps Turkish is a joke.’

I think you are absolutely right. The American model isn’t however a good comparison as it is actually a domestic First Class Cabin, not sold as business class unless connecting from international flights, and there is a certain market still for this in the USA (although much of the seats are upgrades/loyalty). When BA introduced Club Europe they had a good idea with the wider seat and having 5 abreast in the cabin instead of six and with the added legroom. A decent midway offer I felt. But I think so many people complained if they were on the 3 seat side in the middle seat, even though it was bigger than the current seats, and the rest of the European Airlines went to 6 abreast with middle seat free, BA followed. Its a real shame as I liked the old CE seats. Sure the new ones look a lot better, the old convertible ones were more spacious, of course better leg room, and it was a real difference to economy. Not anymore other than the middle seat being a pretty useless table insert. I guess we didn’t realise how good we had it until they changed. 🙂

[sparkyflier]

Dutchyankee good to see you here. I loved the old Club Europe. Always looked forward to it and it always got me ready for work or holiday. The new product just is not desirable.

[rferguson]

The only way I would book shorthaul business class with most euro carriers would be
1) I do not hold frequent flyer status so perks like lounge access, fast track, priority check in/baggage would not be available otherwise.
—and—
2) There was an option to upgrade for c£100
—and—
3) I really needed the tier points.

As is the case for me with Gold status i’d rather stay put in the exit row and have a nibble in the lounge before hand and maybe treat myself to a ‘plane picnic’ from Plane Food.

Carriers that I would pay the extra for domestically or on short haul include Qantas (absolutely outstanding IMHO) and US transcons with the flat bed products.

[FDOS_UK]

rferguson – 19/02/2016 20:19 GMT

Ah, but do I recall you come from Scandinavia, originally? A region known for a classless approach.

We Brits love to feel that we have elevated status and can look down on others and even though the difference is minimal, we are superior in our business class section 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2k1iRD2f-c

[rferguson]

Haha. Not sure about that FDOS. I believe SAS was the very first european airline to launch a business class cabin ‘euroclass’ in 1981.

[AMcWhirter]

rferguson – In fact it was BA and Air France who were amongst the first to introduce short-haul business class around 35 years ago.

Both replaced the full economy fare with a higher tariff for business class while at the same time offering a lower Eurobudget tariff (which came with some restrictions) for stays which did not include a Saturday night.

But SAS had a different idea. It decided to charge no more than the normal economy fare when it launched its own business class soon after.

It meant that SAS business class undercut the BA/Air France products.

Predictatably, Air France was furious. You have to remember how strict commercial aviation was in those days of IATA pricing.

In his book, “Moments of Truth,” SAS CEO Jan Carlzon describes how one of his airline’s Paris-bound flights was refused access to French airspace and had to land in Brussels instead with the passengers being taken overland to Paris.

Eventually the dispute was settled in, I believe, SAS’ favour.

As I’ve mentioned before, the 1980s were SAS’ heyday. For year after year it was the most punctual airline in Europe. And its planes carried huge numbers of business class passengers.

At busy times on routes to/from Stockholm, it was not unusual for 90 per cent of passengers to be booked in business class. *

Today’s European airlines (including SAS) can only dream of such high business class loads.

Note: * Passengers in those days didn’t fly business class on account of the product. It was because, with the exception of Eurobudget which was only slightly cheaper, all the cheaper excursion fares required a Saturday night stay.

[FDOS_UK]

rferguson – 19/02/2016 21:37 GMT

I remember Euroclass, very well, on the DC9s between Manchester and Copenhagen in 1981-83, when I made regular journeys to Scandinavia.

For a 25 year old export sales manager, it felt as if I had really made it! Lounge access, sit upfront; I’ve just looked up one of my old tickets and see the fare was £378, return.

[Bath_VIP]

For all the complaints about European business class travel, FDOS comment about the airfare being £378 rtn for MAN-COP over 30 years ago is a great reminder of how much aviation has managed keep the costs to passengers down over the years.

I recall travelling from Bath to Newcastle in 1987 and getting what I thought was a really cheap APEX return fare of £69 between LHR & NCL on BA. The equivalent train fare for me at the time was £45 return. Nowadays, the same off peak return train fare would be £99 but I can get EasyJet flights from Bristol for £60 return.

[FDOS_UK]

If I booked the same flight, same class of travel and same terms (refundable), the price for March 3rd (return on the 4th) would be £1,144.

So unless compound inflation has exceeded 250% over the elapsed time ( and I don’t know), I don’t think this is a great data point to make the argument that travel is less expensive.

Now looking at restricted economy fares, no argument.

[MrMichael]

I too used SAS a great deal in the eighties and in to the nineties. As I recall it, (I am getting on a bit) full fare economy was business, as it was on BA where the tickets were fully interchangeable. I recall sitting in the lounge in Oslo one day waiting for the SK service to London, had a few too many with a colleague and missed the flight, (no baggage) so we just hopped on the BA 757 an hour or so later and carried on drinking.

[rferguson]

Thanks Alex! Was really interesting to read 🙂

So I guess it must have been something like British Midlands ‘Diamond Club’ cabin? I can remember being a youngster going on a pub crawl weekend to EDI from LHR on a Friday evening. Economy literally consisted of three rows at the back of the plane! The rest was ‘Diamond Class’ or what ever they called it. Was weird feeling that it was actually economy that was the more intimate and exclusive cabin!

[Author]

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