[BeckyBoop]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjtXKIP9Nmg

[rferguson]

1nfrequent ATL has been crewed by ‘legacy’ fleet for the past six or so months.

Routes transfer back and forward seasonally (ie twice per year).

Current longhaul routes served my Mixed Fleet are:
Boston, LAX, Accra, Nairobi, Luanda, Tokyo – Haneda, Denver, Chicago, Rio, Las Vegas. Sorry if i’ve missed one or two.

Boston will revert back to legacy fleet in October with Mixed Fleet commencing Seoul services soon after.

I have been saying for so long – I don’t understand why BA does not integrate both ‘fleets’. Mix some new blood and enthusiasm with some experience and maturity. There would still be massive cost savings to BA as the crew employed on Mixed Fleet contracts would still operate to their own T&C’s.

Airlines like Qantas integrate their newbies with the oldies. Seems to work well.

[VintageKrug]

The toxic legacy of BASSA’s ever-dimishing influence still pollutes a very few hardcore trouble-makers within the legacy fleet.

Exposing Mixed Fleet to that toxic legacy in its nascent years would not have been a good move. As Mixed Fleet grows to become the dominant contingent of cabin crew at BA, and the poisonous atmosphere BASSA’s bullies created recedes into memory, that will be less of an issue.

Either way, it’s not practical to mix the two fleets due to different working agreements, so it’s unlikely to happen in the near future.

Having said that I understand some of the [safety training] briefings are now being held as one group, which is a good sign.

[rferguson]

VK good points. But some I disagree with. ‘On the shop floor’ the militants may be vocal but are few. In fact I can think of few legacy crew that would have any issue with Mixed Fleet crew as in the people.

Both Mixed Fleet and Legacy fleet have issues. Mixed Fleet suffers because they tend to be inexperienced in terms of BA service and as many are so young, perhaps a little in terms of life itself. Legacy Fleet can suffer from the ‘im only here for my pension’ or the ‘im only here because what else can I do at 48 years of age’ types. But in fairness most of my colleagues I work with enjoy their job, are proud to work for BA and do their best with the resources we are given. But yes, in a crew of 14, that one miserable soul is going to be the most noticeable.

I believe both fleets can give the other what each lacks.

The logistics of it would not be so difficult. We already have crew that operate on different itineraries already (for example crew from our International bases) alongside the legacy crew.

Or you could do a simple secondment option as Qantas did for their LHR base which suffered in the beginning because, like BA Mixed Fleet, it started from scratch with complete crews of newbies. Experienced crew of the Qantas OZ based legacy fleet were given the option to apply for a two year secondment to the LHR base (including the ability to apply for temporary promotion). For the two years they would go onto the LHR bases (lesser) T&C’s as well as pay scales but would receive a ‘top up’ each month to what their existing average was. It worked well and Qantas Customer Satisfaction scores for the LHR based crews were soon the best in their network.

[VintageKrug]

I think you’re right about the fact that the majority wouldn’t have a problem with the people themselves – they are, after all, human.

But there are a few who would, and that would be an intolerable pressure for them to work under, especially given the violence some BASSA members meted out against property, the threats to their family’s physical safety and the online and text message abuse suffered by many at the hands of BASSA members and their cohorts.

Mixed Fleet did suffer from rushed training – just the bare minimum for CAA compliance. This as done to ensure the airline could guarantee all longhaul routes would be serviced during the strike. I supported that position then, and it was the right decision with hindsight.

What is needed above all is dedicated training for Mixed Fleet, especially in premium service. I gather this is now taking place, and should resolve some issues.

My most recent F with MF was satisfactory; they were charming, didn’t drop any balls, but it did lack the polish of legacy fleet. having said that, I don’t believe being cabin crew is rocket science, and a few years experience should be sufficient, coupled with more focussed premium training, for MF to bed in.

This was exactly the case at Gatwick in the JML (?) days, and now my experiences on their longhaul services are second to none, and friendlier than legacy to boot.

Despite what others think on here, I am supporter of legacy crew; I wouldn’t continue to support the airline if I wasn’t impressed by their performance. I’m also supportive of Union membership, a position I have oft articulated here. It’s the branch, and a few people within that branch who have been out to feather their own nests and conduct a purely political campaign which is unacceptable and rightly termed “dysfunctional”.

Some improvement since a certain individual departed – now apparently causing merriment sewing the seeds of dissent in his Student Union – but with the recent fudged elections, and continued shenanigans on the “new” but similarly leaky BASSA forum, including personal slights against me on there (which shows you how pathetic it is..!) do not bode well.

I like the approach you suggested; I’m just not sure that even the very best BA legacy fleet can be trusted not to tow the BASSA line and from a corporate perspective it’s not really worth the risk.

[Hippocampus]

rferguson – I understand your reasons for proposing that the two fleets be integrated.

However, if the difference was only salary levels, there would be no need for a separate fleet (and all the associated pain in setting it up).

Mixed Fleet is radically different from EuroFleet/Worldwide. At the moment they are incompatible.

Mixed Fleet has no seniority system. The focus is on merit and individual performance, not time served. Seniority, as you know, rules on EuroFleet and Worldwide and, arguably, all it does is serve to protect long serving crew from the ambitions of more junior colleagues.

The Customer Service Manager (CSM) grade on Mixed Fleet is radically different from Cabin Service Director/Purser on EuroFleet and Worldwide. Aside from different responsibilities, the CSM role is a BA manager grade. This is one of the most significant, and overlooked, aspects of Mixed Fleet. The intention, I understand, is that as the CSM is a BA manager grade, CSMs will be able to easily move from flying to non-flying roles (which is relatively rare for CSDs due to their pay scales) bringing the value of their flying experience with them and a healthy level of turnover of CSMs to allow for promotion of main crew.

Mixed Fleet also has a radically different system of scheduling and performance management. The restrictive practices for EuroFleet and Worldwide have hamstrung the operation for decades and have severely impacted the operation during disruption. There is now more flexibility now the company can unilaterally activate the disruption agreement but if Mixed Fleet was integrated the efficiencies from scheduling and flexibility during disruption would still be diluted.

If EuroFleet and Worldwide crew really want to integrate with Mixed Fleet then they are going to have to be prepared to make changes to meet the company half way before the company will seriously consider the idea, let alone put it forward for board approval.

[Deleted_User]

@ Hippocampus – 19/10/2012 13:41 GMT

You are correct. I was greeted by a CSD and I didn’t see any hats.

When a CC member seems approachable I often interrogate him/her as I am genuinely interested in their working lives. Many (mostly female) have left longhaul and are now much happier on shorthaul.

[handbag]

Vintage Krug
The BA Crew I work with, I am happy to report are so far removed from the descriptions that you regularly post, that I do not recognise them.

I am “Legacy Crew”, if we must be given a name, although World Wide Crew seems a better term. Most Crew Mixed Fleet or WW /Legacy, don’t have animosity towards the other. Some do, but that works both ways.

There are good and bad Crew on both, the same as there is in any other Industry. In general Mixed are young and enthusiastic and we are older and experienced. The ideal situation would be as rferguson said as we could both offer, what the other is lacking. Who knows if / when this will happen. I don’t like to speculate.

I am not aware briefings are being held together and don’t see how this could happen, as a briefing is specific to a flight. Some safety training is now being held jointly.

[BigDog.]

I believe VK misspoke – SEP is now integrated, not briefings which are specific individual trip crews.

[VintageKrug]

I meant the training, not flight briefings, which obviously wouldn’t make sense. Nomenclature!

The descriptions I apparently “regularly” post are consistent in aligning with your assessment.

They are that this is a very limited group of individuals who are spoiling it for everyone else. However, given the invective and in some cases court-proven violence which was meted out by some of this limited group, the downside risk from both an HR and corporate perspective doesn’t bear thinking about for Mixed Fleet crew, especially as they are younger and therefore vulnerable to suggestion, even moreso than the largely brainwashed main crew with whom I had some very interesting conversations while on board during the dispute.

Put simply, it doesn’t take decades of experience to be good cabin crew. It does take good training, and so far this has not happened to the extent it should have exactly because of the need to get new crewmembers out and crewing planes which otherwise might not have operated.

In fact many Mixed Fleet crew I have spoken to are indeed experienced cabin crew from other airlines (Virgin, bmi and EasyJet among others, and before you denigrate EasyJet people, their skills in managing the shorthaul workload are valuable).

I am hopeful that the increased premium training will have an effect, aligning the enthusiasm with service excellence, just as was the case when a similar crewing arrangement was established at Gatwick over a decade ago.

[Henkel.Trocken]

Perhaps BA should take some initiatives which Worldwide and Eurofleet crew would like as part of an integration process.

An example of this was recently sited to me by a neighbour who is worldwide crew. She would love the flexibility to work on Eurofleet at times and would really appreciate a mixed model of working. The answer from BA is that she may join Mixed Fleet with no compensation at all. Obviously she is not going to do that but as she says, she wants it and would gladly go half way to meet BA but they won’t budge.

If BA don’t budge, mixed fleet will eventually become the norm but the death of worldwide and eurofleet will be long and painful and increasingly difficult to manage for BA so it’s in their best interests to start to be creative.

[MartynSinclair]

I am trying to understand how the posting by Henkel.Trocken – 24/10/2012 14:41 GMT will affect my life in the passenger section of a BA aircraft.

Will the aircraft not fly …….. ?

[BigDog.]

In reality any issues arising should be firmly laid at the door of Walsh who chose a bullying approach backed with an extremely expensive and litigious legal team as opposed to bringing in change specialists and winning hearts and minds.

The archaic approach to change employed by Walsh was always destined to create schisms throughout the company. Walsh’s inability to lead people through strategic change whilst maintaining morale and team spirit has left a continuing widespread toxic legacy.

[Henkel.Trocken]

I’m trying to understand the point of MartynSinclair’s 24/10/2012 14:48 GMT post.

Is it a genuine question or just sarcasm?

[Hippocampus]

BigDog

You are wrong. It is clear from uncontested evidence before the High Court that BASSA refused to negotiate with the company and, only until they had nowhere to turn, did they start to negotiate with good faith and the jury is still out as to whether BASSA has changed its ways and can really be trusted.

No other work group in BA has required the equivalent of Mixed Fleet. All other workgroups accepted the need for change over the years. The sole exception is LHR cabin crew and until you stop pointing the finger and blaming everyone else but yourselves for Mixed Fleet I don’t see anything changing.

NB I agree with Handbag the term legacy is inappropriate and should not be used.

[Author]

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