[dutchyankee]

Irons80, I feel you are being overly sensitive or emotional about what Disgusted or Binman have written. If you want to call someone arrogant or on their high-horse, perhaps you need to read more of VK’s posts. If anyone was on a High Horse, make that a High Giraffe, then it is he/she. As for arrogance, here again, VK takes the cake! Whilst I don’t agree with everything Disgusted or Binman say (and actually do at times agree with VK and others) I do not find their posts here arrogant nor rude. Simply relpying in kind to others remarks.

[Irons80]

@dutchyankee – you are probably right. I tend to prefer to read balanced viewpoints. VK leaves me alone, so leave him alone, although his experiences of BA are at least closer to the actual reality than what Disgusted puts out. I find the method of argument to be nitpicking on specific words said rather than on the broad actuality of what is meant to be incredibly tiresome and suggestive of someone who actually hasn’t got a valid POV to put forward. For example, this comment:

‘Write a valid opinion and I wil respect it.

So far your logic has been invalid, as I have demonstrated and Binman also.

Perhaps we could start with the concept of validity?

Something is either valid or it is invalid.’

Yet, ‘If you had written that it can be difficult to maintain silver status without an element of premium travel in your case, I would have accepted that as a valid point of view’ is just pointless, as he knows full well that’s what I and others meant.

To me this isn’t even worth replying to.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Irons

“he knows full well that’s what I and others meant”

Not at the time you wrote it. I just read your words and responded to the actuality.

Please don’t assume that others understand the train of thought behind the words.

I’ve offered to delete my posts if you re-word your original into what you really mean.

And for the avoidance of doubt, what you really mean is a valid perspective.

[Senator]

Thanks DisgustedofSwieqi,

I tend to use my miles for companion trips or for more expensive trips exARN. Let’s take an example:
I fly LHR-ARH-ARN return on LX in business I earn 10.000 miles for £400. A FlySmart award anywhere in Europe in Y is 15.000 and in C/J is 25.000. So 2.5x trips give me the same trip “for free”.

My BA miles are fairly “new” so I plan to wait for my BAEC Sweden VISA 2-for-1 voucher to come, and I will look for a long-haul CW or First trip.

Regarding the fares, this is only possible due to my ability to have a strict schedule which requires limited changes. The LX fares can be changed for £50, which I do occasionally. The BA fares are completely locked.

[Irons80]

eh? i was quoting your words about valid / invalid.
So do you mean what you mean is a valid perspective.
Am I saying what you are saying I am thinking you mean what I thought?
Wow even I have lost myself . Better get on with some real work now.

[dutchyankee]

I agree with you, there is a lot of nit-picking on this site, and many posts simply made to rile others and to get a reaction, which I must admit I have fallen victim to many times. VK tends to leave any comment alone if it is in support of BA. But if you disagree with him/her, look out, as he/she is the only one who knows anything at all about BA, and his/her word is law, period! And god forbid if, like me, English is not your first language and you make a typo, he will be on that as quick as flies on s**t.

[Irons80]

You win. I am wrong. You are right. I know nothing. You know lots. I have nothing on your 33 years of business travel and superior knowlegde of language, pyschology, airlines, wine, premium service, law…

I post now defeated and ashamed at the foolishness of my posts and my logic. I am so very, very, very sorry and I bow to you and superiority *sobs*

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Irons80

Let me get this right.

You have a point of view that you would like to share.

Two of us have shown that your words did not accurately reflect that point of view.

I have said that I think your personal point of view is valid and if you edit your original post to reflect your point of view and remove the incorrect information, I’ll delete all my posts responding to you, leaving you with an uncontested perspective.

That sounds to me like a win-win outcome.

What is your problem with this?

[InfiniteFlyer]

I’m a late-comer to this debate, nearly 30 hours and 91 posts into it, and some of the posts are even about the topic 🙂

I was actually on the take off roll of a CE NAP-LGW flight when Delsurrey posted, so here’s my fresh-off-the-plane perspective.

In a nutshell, my answer is: “a little bit, but it’s getting better again”.

The negative points:
(almost all my CE flying is on rusty old diesel 737-400s, so I only get to sit in the “converter” seats.
1F yesterday was mis-adjusted, so my seat was *narrower* than the middle seat. But my bum still fitted.)
– negative 1: almost-the-same-pitch as ET converter seats
(and by the way, if the woman who moved to the vacant seat behind me while I was reclined and kicked and pushed me so much I asked her to stop is reading this, and also who stood up while we were taxiing fast: you’re better travelling by train)
– negative 2: poor control of toilet use
(this varies by cabin crew, and yesterday was good. Sometimes there’s a queue of ET passengers waiting to use the forward toilet though).
– negative 3: no alcohol offered with breakfast at 7am BST
(make of that what you will, including taking it as a joke if necessary)

NB – I know that 737s aren’t actually diesel powered. I’ve just got a new Poetic Licence though.

Positives:
– the converter seats are still better as 2×2 than they were as 2×3 in 737s before
– hot towels were back!
– a nice hot breakfast
(although no ketchup – boo!)
– “priority disembarkation”
(although that’s really by dint of the door being at the front, innit?)
– nice crew

As readers of my previously initiated, somewhat related thread (“Should I give up on BA?”) will remember, a lot of what I complain about in CE is really Naples airport and other passengers. The CE offering, especially afternoon/evening flights, has been very pleasant for intolerant me NAP-LGW, and is improving slightly.

I reckon it’s a relative bargain way (whether via early purchase of non-flex tickets, or pay-to-upgrade deals) to increase Tier Points, to get something reasonable to eat, and to drink lots of alcohol, all in relative calm and (usually) better manners from fellow passengers.

I realise this isn’t what many of you want from CE. Which begs the question (asked several times in lots of posts here recently): “what do we want from CE/ET?”

For those of us who fly a lot (whatever “a lot” is), I’m guessing that boils down to relative comfort, low-as-possible stress, and low friction. And maybe better fellow passenger behaviour (or is that just me?)

CE does that for me. I really don’t want much else.
And I seriously challenge anyone to convince me that ET, or RyanJet, can offer low stress, low friction, nice passengers experiences. (The only time I’ve ever seen the plastic handcuffs out is on an EasyJet flight…)

Now, if only I could upgrade to CW using miles on a TA booking, I’d be a happy bunny.

Would anyone else be interested in joining a campaign/petition with me to lobby BA to resolve the “system issues” that prevent it? They’d get rid of a lot of hanging BA Miles obligations, which might help them relax a bit…

[First-Pax]

Nobody for ‘First Europe’ then ?/

Guess I’ll just have to get a Net jet card…. 🙂

[Irons80]

To me, forums such as this should be an exchange of opinions and points of view in a constructive and friendly manner. It’s great to have differing views and perhaps people might learn more from it and it might broaden their horizons and thinking.

However, the tone and opinion put forward on these forums (not exclusively by you I might add, but to which you most definitely have some responsibility for) makes the above virtually impossible. Just as VK uses every opportunity he can to ‘big-up’ BA, you seem to use every opportunity you can to ‘bash’ BA (apologies for my use of colloquialisms). In your case on the above discussion, you resort to insults and nitpicking to get your point across, when I am quite sure you have the intellectual wherewithal to have fully understood my point. Instead, since you disagreed with it, as it didn’t suit your line of thinking, you chose to rip it apart, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt and constructively building on my point of view. Whilst you might be technically correct (a position in which it appears you like to revel in) you could have constructively built on my point by demonstrating a ‘real / everyday’ situation of where a traveller would be able to avail the benefits of CE with a silver card without realistically having at least spend some part of the previous year (or indeed the current BAEC year) travelling on it. The situation of someone who takes significant amounts of short-haul travel in ET would realistically not have the time to supplement it with CW long-haul travel, unless they are some kind of George Clooney character from Up in the Air. And if they do travel that much *in my humble opinion* I find it difficult to believe they would only ever travel in economy class.

So, I’ll respectfully reject your ‘win-win’ offer.

[Irons80]

‘(The only time I’ve ever seen the plastic handcuffs out is on an EasyJet flight…)’
sounds kinky 😉

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“To me, forums such as this should be an exchange of opinions and points of view in a constructive and friendly manner. It’s great to have differing views and perhaps people might learn more from it and it might broaden their horizons and thinking.”

So does the post below align with your aspirations for the forum?

“Yawn yawn yawn. As ever certain people on this forum ruin what should be interesting debate and discussion in to a tit for tat session of vitriol and abuse. What don’t you grow up and have an open discussion with useful and realistic ideas about what could be done to improve CE, whilst recognising that BA – as all airlines are – is in business TO MAKE MONEY not flatter the needs of people. Oh and by the way, any points made about the benefits of CE being available to others with status is kind of ridiculous and you won’t achieve any status without actually flying on CE on at least 8-10 RETURN trips in a year in order to achieve silver status, which affords said benefits!”

[CallMeIshmael]

The BA inhouse posters (VK, Hippo et al) may find it worthwhile to take a look at Air Nostrum for a few answers/ideas and report back to their paymasters.
Being part of IAG and rated 3rd in the regional airline awards Nostrum must be doing something right.

There are some positive business reviews here

http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/nostrum.htm

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Having seen the challenge from Irons 80, let’s have a look at how a traveller could earn silver without using CE.

I will start by saying that one has to earn the tier points to earn the status, unless ‘comped in’, which many of us here have experienced in different schemes. I got comped bmi card in 2010, just had it reissued for 2011, although I didn’t meet the threshold.

The challenge is “you could have constructively built on my point by demonstrating a ‘real / everyday’ situation of where a traveller would be able to avail the benefits of CE with a silver card without realistically having at least spend some part of the previous year (or indeed the current BAEC year) travelling on it. The situation of someone who takes significant amounts of short-haul travel in ET would realistically not have the time to supplement it with CW long-haul travel, unless they are some kind of George Clooney character from Up in the Air. And if they do travel that much *in my humble opinion* I find it difficult to believe they would only ever travel in economy class.”

Scenario A

Let’s also assume the traveller is based in London, but makes a number of return trips to Glasgow, travelling on a flexible domestic ticket as his/her schedule is subject to changes.

16 round trips @ 40 tier points = 640 points

Scenario B

A London based traveller with a mixture of European and Near Eastern destinations, plus occasional domestic.

Short haul ET = 6 return trips @ 20 tier points = 120

Mid haul ET = 10 return trips @40 tier points = 400

Domestic = 4 return flights @20 tier points = 80

Scenario C

London based traveller who travels infrequently domestically and beyond. Company policy is economy under 7 hours.

2 x Club World return trips @240 tier points = 480

2 x Domestic return trips in flexible economy @80 tier points = 160

Scenario D

A self employed computer contractor who lives in Glasgow and travels weekly on a 12 month contract to the West London area. Is reponsible for own travel costs and thus books at the cheapest rates available.

let’s assume 45 trips per year = 90 segments, achieves silver at 50 segments.

Scenario E

London based traveller takes twice monthly return trip to Paris, using discounted tickets and one long haul WT+ flight in a year.

24 x ET to Paris @20 tier points = 480

1 x WT+ @150 points = 150

I believe that these scenarios meet Irons 80’s challenge criteria and demonstrate the different ways of earning status.

These are just a few examples using BA only, the combinations are virtually endless.

Whatever downsides I see at BA, earning status is not one of them.

To put this into perspective, I’ve averaged 106 segments per year, for the past 8 years.

Although I’m fortunate enough to use business class a lot of the time (my worldview is similar to Binman’s), I could easily achieve silver or above on virtually any ‘home’ airline, by travelling in economy.

It would be particularly easy on BA, as BAEC has recently changed to recognise frequent travellers, as well as premium travellers.

Symptoms of this include the withdrawal of ‘open access’ to the lounge network (due to the ease of getting/retaining a card), the addition of the 50 segment qualification rule and the award of tier points on discounted economy flights.

[Author]

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