[First-Pax]

Anybody want to fly in ‘First Europe’ ??

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Martyn

Hope you’re well, it’s a while since I’ve seen your name on the boad, probably because I’e been away a lot in the past fortnight.

You summarise the paradox well. Most business exist to make a profit and therefore seek to maximise margins by reducng the product/service to the minimum that will meet requirements.

Then market forces apply pressure and companies adopt strategies to position, for example Ryanair taking a cost leadership approach and BA’s CWLC product differentiating.

I agree with Binman on this and other threads, that BA does not have a credible strategy for their premium product on European routes and the various ‘enhancements’ to service have really made it a high priced, inadequately featured, product.

Perhaps the tide is changing with the reintroduction of some deleted features.

I would welcome this and it would persuade me to start bying the product again.

[ivornomates]

http://www.anna.aero/2011/07/13/british-airways-losing-ground-against-european-rivals/ how long before they set up a hub in AMS FRA CDG ?

[openfly]

What BA world does VK live in???

I have used BA Club Europe 3 times in the last three weeks in and out of LCY…….6 flights.

I can assure him that his Club Europe product there just does not exist…
1. No lounge…so no papers, coffee, nibbles, relaxation or a drink….and with two 2 hour delays that is a pain.
2 No extra space seats in CE…just economy seats
3. No hot towels
4. No nuts
5. The constant trudge of economy passengers through the ”Club Cabin”
6. No space for ”extra hand baggage”
7. No priority boarding
8. No priority disembarkation
9. No wardrobe…to have your jacket hung up
10. The LCY handling compay groundstaff do not have a clue as to the BA Premium product.

BUT….the BA LCY cabin crew are so nice!!! When you talk to them they are aware that they are not producing the proper Club Europe product. But until BA Mainline take a close look, thats what you get for your money.

…and VK you cannot argue that all is so perfect, as usual. Maybe with all your high-level contacts at BA you could get it improved.

This is economy with a glass of fizz, nothing else….and I dont drink!!

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“I didn’t SAY YOU HAD TO FLY ON CE TO GET STATUS.”

This is what you said:

“Oh and by the way, any points made about the benefits of CE being available to others with status is kind of ridiculous and you won’t achieve any status without actually flying on CE on at least 8-10 RETURN trips in a year in order to achieve silver status, which affords said benefits!”

To draw out the salient point “YOU WON’T ACHIEVE ANY STATUS WITHOUT ACTUALLY FLYING ON CE.”

So you DID say that one won’t achieve any status without actually flying on (sic) CE.

So if it is true that one won’t achieve any status without flying CE, how can it NOT be true that one has to fly C in order to get a silver card? Your logic is busted.

“You really need to watch your tone. As a Silver card member with 1040 tier points this year I am fully aware and versed in what a traveller needs to do in order to achieve status with BA.”

This may well be true, but patently you cannot explain your argument in a logical, rational and valid manner.

As to tone, I reciprocated yours.

Now on to the practical side of things, many people on this board could easily fly the 40 or 50 ET sectors necessary to get silver status, whilst also comfortably maintaining gold (higher level) status from ther long haul activities.

You also seem to forget that tier points are easily earned across the oneworld network, with only 4 flights required on BA metal, so 4 flights in domestic, economy or business is the minimum to get silver (or gold for that matter.)

[Irons80]

I cannot even bother to find the strength any more to reply to you – essentially it’s people like you that make reading this forum slowly but surely a less pleasurable and interesting experience. You appear to have no grasp at all on the reality of travelling for most people.
In terms of ‘tone’ you used the word ‘fool’ in your post – I don’t see where I insulted you or even made any sleight on you or anything you said. You seem to simply drift into insults against anybody who dares to have an opinion that is different to yours. Which strikes me – on a personal note – quite arrogant and highly immature.

[jet72uk]

Is it just the LCY-JFK that is operated by LGW crew?

[Binman62]

Irons80….you won’t achieve any status without actually flying on CE on at least 8-10 RETURN trips in a year.

The rules of membership are clear, just 4 qualifying flights on BA metal and 600 tier points are required. It is entirely possible to obtain/retain a silver card with around £200 of spend on BA. The rest can be on one world. If you have a look at some other sites it is possible to obtain a Gold card with a spend of about £1000 and 3 days on planes and none of them BA.

No one need ever endure CE to obtain a status!

[Irons80]

Binman, that might well be true, but the reality of life is that if you are a business traveller like myself, based in London, whilst it is possible, I don’t feel that it’s really feasible to earn all your points out side of the 4 flights required on BA. And I have flown on Mexicana, Qantas and AA in the last 2 years, all of which have helped to swell my tier points total nicely.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Irons 80

It is true that I may not have a grasp on the reality of traveling for most people, but that is because I have spent 33 years travelling on business and therefore am not representative of ‘most people.’

I have a very strong grasp on the reality of travelling for the frequent travelling business person.

If you don’t like having your incorrect assertions challenged, maybe you should write more carefully to ensure that they make sense?

As to your ability to deduce personality from an internet post, this is pretty impressive.

I’ll share this with the APA (American Psyhological Society), who may be interested in this.

As to my use of the word ‘fool’, I used a slightly corrupted quote from Abraham Lincoln, in the context of the need to think carefully before speaking. You appear to have taken this to mean that I consider you a fool. If this is case, that was not my intention.

[Irons80]

Maybe you should get off your high horse and realise that other people have an opinion which is as valid as yours – if not more so (based on the tone of many of your posts which seems to suggest to me that your personality is that of a person quite happy at alienating those around them on a frequent basis).

As your bit about ‘As to your ability to deduce personality from an internet post, this is pretty impressive. I’ll share this with the APA (America Psyhological Society), who may be interested in this’, I’ll take that as a compliment, since several of the world’s largest FMCG companies employ to do precisely that.

I don’t mind being challenged at all – I take exception to the style, manner and tone which YOU challenge them (as seemingly do others).

[Senator]

Dear all,

Let’s be gents (and ladies) and respectfully disagree… Meanwhile, back on topic…

I spend a fair amount of time on BA, LX, LH, and SK in business class in Europe. Personally, to me the important premium for business over econ are:
The free middle seat or bigger seat
Quicker route to status
Lounge access
Free, decent F&B

As most of my flights are +2hrs, I tend to choose discounted business fares. For my personal comparison of experience, see the other thread: http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/Intra-European-J-cabins

My average ARN-LHR or LHR-ARN via ZRH fare is around £400 in business or CE. To me, I believe this is a great value on the basis of my requirements above.

I would not be able to maintain a BAEC Silver or Gold and M&M SEN without the business class flights as my long-haul is limited. Therefore, the notion of getting lounge access without flying BACE is a chicken and egg situation for me. Without business class travel, In don’t earn my status and no lounge access.

On the topic of BA CE specifically, it would be very interesting to see the split between pax with long-haul connections vs. point-to-point using BA CE exclusively on let’s say LHR-ARN. The same is true for other airlines as well. I do find frequently a full business class cabin with 7-8 rows on the LHR-FRA flights on LH, but I always wonder how many are continuing their journey or simply coming home?

My only gripe with BA CE is the same as Openfly. The inferior product exLCY. Did it once, will not use it again. Hence, I have voted with my feet which is my general suggestion to those un-happy with BA. If the offering does not live up to your expectations, buy something else (e.g. fly with someone else).

[First-Pax]

‘First Europe’ Openfly ?

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“Maybe you should get off your high horse and realise that other people have an opinion which is as valid”

Write a valid opinion and I wil respect it.

So far your logic has been invalid, as I have demonstrated and Binman also.

Perhaps we could start with the concept of validity?

Something is either valid or it is invalid.

Therefore one valid opinion cannot be more valid than another.

However, if dealing in facts, we can easily validate those by testing them.

If you had written that it can be difficult to maintain silver status without an element of premium travel in your case, I would have accepted that as a valid point of view.

Why don’t you re-read what you actually posted and the use of words such as ‘ridiculous’ in the context of dismissing Binman’s valid opinion?

“Yawn yawn yawn. As ever certain people on this forum ruin what should be interesting debate and discussion in to a tit for tat session of vitriol and abuse. What don’t you grow up and have an open discussion with useful and realistic ideas about what could be done to improve CE, whilst recognising that BA – as all airlines are – is in business TO MAKE MONEY not flatter the needs of people. Oh and by the way, any points made about the benefits of CE being available to others with status is kind of ridiculous and you won’t achieve any status without actually flying on CE on at least 8-10 RETURN trips in a year in order to achieve silver status, which affords said benefits!”

If you were to go back and edit your post to a more reasonable tone and transform the incorrect generalizations into valid particularizations in your circumstances, then I’ll delete my posts responding to you.

Is tha a fair offer?

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Senator

As always, you make some very good points.

I understand your travelling patterns and am interested if you are able to use miles to reduce the overall cost of your short haul business travel, by using them to upgrade, or whether you prefer to use them on leisure activities.

In the years before I had my corporate deal with Air Malta, I was able to save about 20% over the course of a year by using miles driven uprades, as KM usually have good availability in the C cabin.

One thing for sure, you are achieving a competitive average fare for the routes you fly.

[Author]

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