[VintageKrug]

*sits down with box of popcorn*

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/club-europe/public/en_gb

[Binman62]

“I am perplexed, as Meldrew62 repeatedly slates CE and dissuades people from flying in it, yet at the same time doesn’t offer a credible alternative, and would appear to wish the CE cabin was eliminated altogether.”

I had no idea I had such influence on the travel habits of the readers of BT. I suspect that my influence is greatly exaggerated.

I have a view and based on personal experience express it.

My views of the products I buy or experience are just that, a view but in 2010 this was universally bad. This may have been bad luck, volcanoes, snow and strikes or may have been symptomatic of a malaise and disinterest in customers at BA. Whatever the cause the impact on me was considerable.

2011 has been better in that disruption has not occurred but the product being served has deteriorated while fares have risen sharply. Dirty cabins and toilets in refurbished First, or old product with clapped out IFE and catering that simply is below par and which was embarrassing for the crew to serve. The crew were however were the only highlight.

Other flights were fine, but the service on the ground and in the air is increasingly perfunctory and if BA wishes to again be a great airline then frankly they must do more. It is hugely disappointing for example that having been given their own terminal at LHR that they have not been able to build on the enormous benefits that that gave them.

Their ground product is world class if you have lounge access (except for baggage and premium passenger coaching) but it is not repeated in the air where I actually spend more time with them.

Others will have a different experience and their views are as valid and valuable as my own.

Regarding Club Europe I have long advocated a return to a First Class Short haul product particularly over 2.5 hours. A decent seat, similar to US and Asian carriers with catering to match the time of day and flight duration. IFE, moving maps and access to telephone and data services at a price that does not require a Euro millions win. Space for coats, hand baggage and an end to fighting the crew for over locker space. It may not be part of BA’s business plan but it is clearly possible given that many others already do it, except in Europe.

As for the benefits lauded in the list I would comment as follows.

1. Priority check in.

Don’t need to fly club, can get this with Silver card

2. Increased checked baggage allowance.

Don’t need to fly club, can get this with silver card

3. Access to the BA Galleries/Terraces lounges for magazines, newspapers and food and drinks including champagne (or sparkling wine in a few non-UK locations) pre-flight.

Don’t need to fly club, can get this with silver card.

4. Priority boarding.

Don’t need to fly club, can get this with silver card………….not available on my flight last weekend ex Europe.

5. Extra room to store carry-on baggage

Simply untrue, the amount of leg room is exactly the same. Personal space is a little larger but in row 1 you cannot store bags or anything else on the floor. Invariably the overhead lockers have the crew bags.

In any event if in first row of Euro Traveller affords the same amount of space in Seat A and B.

6. No person next to you, so you can read business or personal papers with more privacy, or spread out into the seat next to you.

You are a few extra inches away from the person seated beside you. It is not a full size seat space. You may avoid rubbing shoulders as in Euro traveller but it is hardly a haven of peace and privacy.

You can also get this in Euro traveller if you pre select you seat, albeit in just the first row.

7. The option of having your jacket or coat hung for you in the forward locker…….

Surely a club style product can offer more than this?

8. A tray service food offering on board, including champagne.

And as many have said a catering product that has been enhanced into oblivion and is wholly inconsistent.

9. At least two “bar runs” for those with a thirst.

I can press the call button in Euro traveller I don’t need to be in club to get 2 drinks.

10. Priority disembarkation.

Would be difficult not to on a single aisle aircraft with door 1 being used as the exit.

11. Additional Tier Points and miles for the cabin flown

Accepted this is better.

When looked at objectively the list above does not really add a lot to the benefits available to most card holders.

[VintageKrug]

While I agree that benefit is maximised for those without status, regular EuroTraveller passengers would struggle to get all those benefits without status, and it usually takes a few CE sectors to get that Silver card in the first place.

So, you have set out why you don’t believe CE is a credible option, and have advocated a dedicated First Class style cabin.

Do you think there is a reason BA, and indeed every other carrier, doesn’t offer this style of service on shorter European flights?

Any reason at all?

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“Any reason at all?”

Because they can get away with it.

Why can they get way with it? That is the question.

[Swissdiver]

Well, guys, BA CE is still far better than AF, LH or LX equivalent…

[Tirana1]

As an occasional poster to this forum (but a frequent user of CE – some 20 or so sectors this year, including longer DME, IST journeys) some key points;

1) CE is often no more expensive than a fully flexible economy ticket – I invariably do need total flexibility, so there is no net additional cost

2) Catering on anything more than the shortest routes has actually got a lot better recently – often it is rather good. (Currently, I would rate it as often better than the dull and inadequate offerings in Club World.) Afternoon tea with scones and champagne returning to blighty is a particular treat !

3) If you sit on the D/F side of the aircraft you do get a full empty seat – the additional room is very useful for working. My ability to spread out papers and thus use travel time profitably means this utility alone warrants use of CE.

4) The space saver seats are cheap and nasty – something akin to a low-cost offering. They should go.

5) The state of the short haul 767’s is a disgrace – CE on a 3.5 hour flight is ok but on a clapped out short haul 767, not good. Their continued use on ultra expensive routes such as DME reflects badly on BA.

6) I also fly business short haul on BMI, Swiss and Austrian – BA is the best of the bunch by a country mile. The significant exception is BMI to DME which is by far the best choice for that route, offering a proper mid-haul product (ironically, using BA’s old Club World cradle seats) .

7) In summary, for me, CE is a reason for choosing to fly with BA and almost always is a pleasant experience. Sometimes it is excellent. But on short haul 767’s it is awful. I am prepared to pay a higher fare for CE if what I get represents value – for me it does. Given load factors to my normal destinations (DME, LIN, ARN, VIE, ZRH) I suspect many others agree. BA have not lost the plot at all – for me, they have a rather good product overall which, crucially, helps me use travel time efficiently and profitably.

[alexlondon]

On the link VK provided, it takes you to the BA website where, it says, on the longer CE flights “you may also take advantage of the Club Europe wine service.” I have never noticed any difference on the wine service and, on my last flights to Istanbul and Athens asked the crew what the “Club Europe wine service” was. No one had ever heard of it! VK also refers to “at least two bar runs.” That very rarely happens to me – and I flew last week to both Lisbon and Marrakech. It didn’t happen on way out or back.

I like CE and understand that investment in the hard product is hard. It is these small touches, plus menus and a chocolate with coffee, which cost so little yet make it feel like a premum product.

[VintageKrug]

It’s good to see that the investment in catering is taking hold – the hot towels and nuts are but the first step.

Though I might add that everyone has missed the big news.

[Binman62]

The reason BA have not chosen the first class route in Europe is because they introduced CE at a time when it was not unusual to see 100 plus passengers in CE to Lots of destinations. This was pre LCC. Since then they and others hanse kept to the variable cabin despite the huge reduction in CE point to point traffic. European legacy carriers have been engaged in a rush to the bottom in terms of standards.

They have for too long tried to be all things to all passengers and what they need to do (IMHO) is provide a trully premium product to the few. I do not need a separate cabin to have a flexible ticket. In the past it was actually more cost effective when measured over a period of time to buy inflexible tickets and take the hit as and when they could not be used. It is still often possible to get very cheap one way fares on the day.
if BA only tries to emulate easy jet then CE will simply continue to decline.

[Tirana1]

On what conceivable basis can the assertion that BA is emulating Easy-Jet in its CE offering be justified ?

In my experience same day cheap one way fares are pretty universally unavailable – including on Easy Jet and Ryan Air.

The evidence (based upon significant recent personal experience) is that rather than CE declining, it is improving on the whole. The most significant elemenet of that is the general improvement in catering standards. (Which those who manage Club World catering could learn from..)

There is certainly room for further improvement, particularly on the longer sectors (and especially where decrepit 767’s are used) but it is simply wrong in my experience to suggest declining standards. Rather, the opposite is true.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Tirana1

Please read Binmans post again and then edit your comments.

You are doing a Vintage Prat and commenting on what you think he wrote, not what he actualy wrote.

[alexlondon]

I want to hear VK’s “big news…”

[Tirana1]

Thank you – I can read it perfectly well. I just happen to disagree. No editing is required. Moreover, the tendency to perpetual BA-bashing is becoming a little tiring – and very predictable. There is everything to be said for an informed critique but that is not what certain of the earlier comments appear to represent.

[Swissdiver]

@DisgustedofSwieqi: is it a new form of gentle idea sharing you are developing here?
“Am I correct in thinking that you are not a native English speaker?”
“Please read Binmans post again and then edit your comments.”

NOT enjoying your tone.

[Swissdiver]

@alexlondon: me too! 🙂

[Author]

Posts