[Bucksnet]

I’m not feeling silly TOH. That commuter plane which iced up was not properly de-iced on the ground, somewhere in the Rockies I think. The US Airbus that landed on the Hudson was as a result of multiple bird strikes. The failed take off plane was not really in the air, at cruising altitude.

The point I’m trying to make is about a plane at cruising altitude just dropping out of the sky, and so fast that the pilots haven’t even got time to radio a mayday, swear or scream.

canucklad, BA38 achieved what it was supposed to.

[TiredOldHack]

The reason for them falling out of the sky is irrelevant. The fact is that they do – for all sorts of reasons. And the American Eagle pilots, IIRC, didn’t have time to send a Mayday.

And for dropping of the sky from higher altitudes – pilots get get so focused on what they’re doing that they don’t start shouting ‘Help’.

Oh, just thought of another one – the Aeroflot Airbus that pancaked into Siberia after the pilot left his kid at the controls.

[craigwatson]

Not to forget the best of them all….. Air China flight 006.

747 at cruising altitude, the crew became disoreintated after an engine failure and were “falling toward the sea below” and rolled inverted before the crew finally got it under contraol at 9000′ above the pacific.

Take a look on wiki…

[canucklad]

Surely the defination of falling out the sky should therefore be a sudden and irreversable loss of flight control. Was it not the pilots fault when to make the turbulance smoother as it flew through another aircrafts slipstream ,he started to manually fly it and lost control of a safe but bumpy plane. I think it was just after 9/11

[TiredOldHack]

Who cares what causes it? The fact is that it happens.

[RichHI1]

Bucksnet, so was Delta 18 (which thankfully they pulled out) the same conspiracy or something else?

[canucklad]

Bucksnet. I’m sure that it would depend on the individual circumstance and timeline whether or not communication occurs. Our Hudson chap went quiet and did not respond to ATC. The first priority is to stabilise flight not radio for help ! Therefore depending on the severity or suddeness of the problem will affect reactions from the crew. The poor souls on Swissair communicated until it was too late. If the recorder is recovered then I’m sure you would hear the disturbing futility comments.

[craigwatson]

so Bucksnet, you are saying because you cant hear them yelling screaming, or declaring mayday then it is faked, but a serious flaw in your argument is if they could fake that, then they would just fake the crew screaming and yelling!

Anything made by man CAN and WILL fail at some point or another.

All these examples are just the ones you are aware of beacause there were just too many things working agaisnt the crews and they ended badly. Every single day around the world things go t**s up somewhere, and the crew deals with it as trained.

Pitot tubes fail probably 100’s of times a year around the world and everything ends well, its just when circumstances arise where everything just lines up perfectly to cause an incident.

[RichHI1]

I ask myself if there was a conspiracy, who conspired and what were they trying to achieve? Why did the same thing happen to Delta? Are you suggesting Industrial Espionage by Airbus?

[craigwatson]

bucksnet – “The point I’m trying to make is about a plane at cruising altitude just dropping out of the sky, and so fast that the pilots haven’t even got time to radio a mayday, swear or scream” , most of the time you just hear them saying something like ” what the h**l is going on, why is it doing this?”

Something goes wrong your not just going to sit back and start screaming, you are going to try and recover the aircraft, and that takes concentration, not hysterics.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate in that order. There is a reason that communication always come last,

[Bucksnet]

You’re all missing the point, and then come up with stupid examples like the pilot leaving his kid at the controls and s**t like that. Not exactly the plane’s fault is it? And at 35,000 feet there is enough time to aviate, navigate AND communicate, not so at low levels and failed takeoffs etc.

[TiredOldHack]

I’ve come to the conclusion you’re an idiot. Sorry, and all that, but there it is.

[Bucksnet]

I’ve come to the conclusion you’re another of the gullible sheeple. Sorry, and all that, but there it is.

[craigwatson]

actually bucksnet, in your examples there wasnt time to aviate navigate and communicate, because they never did regain control of the aircraft. so they were aviating only ( and not very well at that!! ). just look at the flight track of the air france crash, their track was all over the place.

near the airport you will probably throw in a quick mayday as atc can clear traffic for you, out over the atlantic there is nothing anybody can do, so using the radio is the absolute last thing you would even think about.

the main contributing factor for any accident from the cruise with be confusion!

[canucklad]

Interesting and some what amusingly, considering flying is a regular occurence in our daily lifes how this started off about an AF incident and has digressed into morbid conspiracry theories. Oddly at no point has anyone mentioned the almost required need for manufactuers to try and sometimes succesfully shift blame to pilot error! The true conspiracy is how often has an incident been blamed on human error at operational level and the manufacturer gets off relatively unscathed. Just think fly by wire technology!

[Author]

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