[Bucksnet]

They won’t be given the authority because the EU is in charge. Accept that fact without complaint or vote to leave.

[MartynSinclair]

…..and there is where the problem starts!

[Capetonian]

Accept that fact without complaint or vote to leave.

It would be nice to think that enough votes for UKIP or even the BNP would result in the UK leaving, but it’s not going to happen. Hopefully the EU will implode on itself, the sooner the better.

[AlanReynolds1]

Very sad to read some of the anti-EU messages in this thread. We need our friends in the rest of Europe. In my opinion we should totally abolish controls on movements within the EU (accepting we have criminals in every country including our own), and concentrate our resources on arrivals from non-friendly countries. Theresa May was right in what she authorised, but did not go far enough.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Alan

A lone voice of reason, but very welcome.

[NTarrant]

Our friends in Europe for free trade and exchange of goods, enjoying a special relationship as an area of the world. In Europe, but not run by Europe. United States of Europe, no ta.

[MartynSinclair]

Aha, so you feel that Europe controling UKBA and expanding Schengen can further secure UK borders.

May as well start reprinting all benefits forms to cope with the increases.

Why is there such a problem in Calais with migrants desperate to get into the UK – arnt the Schengen countries generous enough or is it a case of “lets push them over the channel”.

[RichHI1]

DoS, sorry I disagree, lone yes, reasonably maybe, correct no.
I am afraid Martyn is right.
We need to put the UK and the safety of the Uk and its citizens first.
I would vote for a more US style approach that says Home Security is job one and we will think about cost and efficiency and what the others thing later.
In the UK it seems to be cost first, convenience second, how to look european and talk eruopean without upetting the backbenchers too much and last of all security.
The US charge for Esta, the Australians and many others charge for visas, the UK requires pre flight information filed already so I think operating either an independent ESTA for UK or better still co-operating with North America , Europe and other groupings to construct a more universal esta (amongst states with secure systems and government) that requires a small fee would be a positive step.
May’s attempts to cover her a*s and blame everyone else was laughable. To those who who would level political bias at me, I would say the prevous administrations of Labour and Conservative have been equally lamentable in their record though I do feel prior home secretaries of both parties have been more focussed on their jobs and not their careers than Catwoman. Like so many of these things, I would set up an independent commission and take it out of the hands of Cameron and Milliband so we get a system that defends us.
My personal belief is that we need more international co-operation which the fortrss europe approach prevents (the metric seems to be EU co-operation good, Global co-operation bad ) means saying adios EU and hola EEA but I know many posters on this forum hold deep and strongly founded convictions on the need for a European Super State and I am not trying to change your minds, I even support your democractic right to hold these views and vote for them (when if ever permitted).
Interesting to see Cameron try to portray his pro Erm past as anti Euro and the Brownian legacy of no to Euro as pro Euro, pass the sick bag Alice as someone once said, or at least the snake oil.. Cannot say the other lot did a lot to impress here either – Gosh it’s depressing..
Last quick note – don’t like epass gates as they exclude non europeans and are unreliable and offer a vastly inferiror service to IRIS but I cannot understand why Eurostar and Port of Calais etc do not have rows and rows of them. Surely channel crsossings have higher numbers of euros and the time saving for Border officers would be significant. Oh that’s right we gave the invetsment to the IMF not to bail out the Eurozone countries… forgot …

[Capetonian]

AlanReynolds1 –
We need our friends in the rest of Europe. In my opinion we should totally abolish controls on movements within the EU (accepting we have criminals in every country including our own), and concentrate our resources on arrivals from non-friendly countries. Theresa May was right in what she authorised, but did not go far enough.

Please tell me you posted this as a joke, or after over-indulgence in an illegal substance, or maybe just a bit too much vino from ‘our friends in the rest of Europe’.

The problem, and you repeatedly fail to see it, is that people arriving from Europe may well be from what you call ‘non friendly countries’. Do you have any idea, for example, how many Moldovans there are travelling on illegally aquired Romanian passports, or how many Africans get in through Italy and Spain? Are they ‘friendly’ just because they happen to be arriving from Europe.

Your naivety is stunning.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Martyn

“Why is there such a problem in Calais with migrants desperate to get into the UK”

Take the time to review the following on a UK v France (and others) basis

– border control efficiency
– benefits available
– authorities knowledge of how many unauthorised immigrants are in the country
– record on departation
– application of human rights legislation by the courts

Then you tell me.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Rich (and others)

Until the UK leaves or re-negotiates terms, it picks up the tab for being a part, such as offsetting part of the eurozone costs. Being ‘half in, half out’ is a crazy position and delivers the worst of all worlds.

I’m not in favour of a federal europe, which is clearly what the politicos desire and I think that most europeans would share my perspective. We want an aligned bloc with clout, but to keep our own identitities and cultures. For obvious reasons, you have very good feelings about the US, whereas many of us feel that it acts in its own interests (no beef with that) and will become more isolated in the future.

But we are not frightened of Schengen (firstly the border controls are generally okay and secondly, as Alan Reynolds says we accept that we have some bad guys in the system, that’s life and what the police are for.)

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Capetonian

If you wish to have a crime free society, I recommend looking at the soviet model, where militia stood on every street corner and babushkas controlled every hotel and apartment block.

The crime rate was very low.

Personally, I’ll accept a level of crime as the price of freedom.

[Capetonian]

That did not give a crime free society by any means. It simply meant that the streets were crime free and crime was sponsored and operated by the government.

The reason that there was no crime in communist countries, in simpler terms, is that the government had removed from the people anything that anyone else might have wished to steal. As such, communism was the crime.

[MartynSinclair]

DoS

I would presume the answer is pretty simple.

Because there is not enough free candy in the French system. In the UK the free candy is much sweeter.

If there were stricter borders within Europe, surely the migrants wouldnt have even reached Calais in the first place.

[AlanReynolds1]

Capetonian. Not naievty but a sincerely held view. Our apparent border controls are nothing of the kind. I travel a lot within the EU as do many Britons. We get a lot of benefit from simpler or non-existent barriers when we move around within the EU. It is ludicrous that UK politicians I elected seek to put greater obstacles in my way of getting back into my home country than do the politicians of other EU countries of getting into theirs. You may feel differently about this ease of movement and, in a democracy, may you long have the freedom to hold and express that view. I just dont happen to share it, which also is my right. Alan

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