[AlanReynolds1]

Where this debate started was whether the Immigration Officers at some ports should have been instructed just to look at passports rather than, additionally, do magnetic checks on passports or/and biometric checks on non-EU citizens.

I reckon the guy in the IS who took that decision was correct, His greatest duty is to UK citizens who want to get back home with the minimum of delay after a long journey. I have been travelling more than 40 years and certainly remember the IO would just glance at me and the paper passport. Then wave us through. The current palaver (of presenting one by one, and having the passport stripe read and, sometimes, intrusive questions asked about where I have been and why) has slowed down the whole process. To what benefit to UK citizens? I have not seen any adduced.

I go regularly (10 times so far in 2011) to Paris by Eurostar. At St Pancras the French IO glances at me and my passport and waves me through. End of checks to get into France. No one at Gare du Nord (visibly) watching or checking me as I come off the train.

Compare that with the return at Gare du Nord. Desks with British IOs one by one scanning passports. No separation for UK citizens (so dont get stuck as I did Friday night behind a Paraguayan spending a few days in London on way home!). Then at St Pancras a bevy of IOs sourly looking at all arrivals and stopping some (usually non-whites) for examination. I think it much more difficult and unnecessarily so to get back into my own country than to travel to that of a friendly neighbour. It is that overkill which I would like Theresa May to address

[Capetonian]

intrusive questions asked about where I have been and why

As a British (born in UK) citizen/passport holder with full right of abode in the UK, even if I don’t live there, it pisses me off to be asked instrusive questions. It’s more often the way they ask that causes offence.

Not long ago at Luton I was asked quite aggressively :
IO :”How long are you staying in the UK”
Me :”I don’t know”
IO “How can you not know?”
Me : “Because I haven’t decided how long I’m staying, does it matter?”
IO : “What is the purpose of your visit?
Me : “Family, friends, business, shopping ……”
IO : “Do you have a return ticket?”
Me :”To where?”
IO : “To where you’ve just come from.”
Me : “I’ve just come from Kiev, I’ve no intention of going back there?”
IO : “So where are you going to when you leave?”
Me : “Has it occurred to you that I could stay here for the rest of my life if I choose to?

At this point he came out with one of the most abused words in the English language : “I don’t have to take abuse from you, you know.”

At that, I instructed him to call the person in charge and he gave me back my closed passport and waved me through.

Why? What did he hope to achieve? Uneducated, pointless, ignorant.

[Bucksnet]

A simple Google search is all that’s required to read about Denmark re-establishing its border controls.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&biw=1280&bih=935&gbv=2&q=denmark+re-establish+border+controls&oq=denmark+re-establish+border+controls&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=45629l45629l0l51132l1l1l0l0l0l0l172l172l0.1l1l0

Crime in Denmark has risen since they entered Schengen. Crime in Switzerland has risen since they entered Schengen, and they are thinking of leaving. Some parts of Sweden now have more crime in one day than they used to get in a whole month.

[MartynSinclair]

On occasions I arrive into Luton directly from the States in a private jet. The aircraft is crewed by both UK and US passport holders. Invariably, it is the UK passport holders that are spot checked (“inside the terminal please SIr!”) whilst the US contigent smile politely, and leave directly with the handling agent landside.

Capetonian – the way you were questioned at Luton, doesn’t suprise me – and thats very sad.

[Binman62]

Those stopped at LHR and other airports are invariably returned to wherever they came from on the next flight. If they have arrived here without a passport ( generally because they destroyed in flight) then the airline is fined £2000 per passenger. They are also fined for allowing travel on false documents no matter how good the document may be.

Sending passengers back is done at the expense of the airline when no ticket is produced. Moreover, Immigration staff it is often alleged, actively tell returnees that the airline will pay and that they do not have to show a ticket and cannot be compelled to pay.
Airlines invest millions each year training staff to be immigration officers and trying to stay one step ahead of the criminal gangs who traffic human beings for their own ends.

It is often hard enough for people to understand the difference between forgery and counterfeit, let alone spot such documents.

[FlyingChinaman]

Binma69: I agreed to al lyour points with illigal entries EXCEPT it is the tones and manners of the UK Immigration officers for which upset the arriving passengers!

I often travel with non-UK passport holders into London and most of them told me how much they felt not treated right!!!

Admit they are mostly a bunch of sour puss!

Australian Immigration offciers for arrivals are great make you feel welcome. Sadly not great for departure and something the immigration department can work on.

[Capetonian]

Having been in the airline industry most of my life, I understand the above. I have been in a position where I had to pay the fines for people who had arrived illegally on our flight.

I have faced people who have done as described and I know what they tend to look like, how they speak, and where they come from. And in my scenario above, unless it flagged on his computer, the IO did not know I’d come from Kiev and had no way of knowing as queues from several flights mixed.

Whilst I am not exactly an Armani suited Ipad2 toting businessman, I do not look like the sort of person who would have destroyed their document.

The questioning, and more the manner in wihch it was performed, was totally unjustified.

[Bucksnet]

The Home Secretary has admitted that fewer or no checks were done, even on people from at risk countries, in order to speed up immigration at T3.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/8874883/Theresa-May-we-will-never-know-how-many-people-got-through-without-proper-checks.html

I can’t believe that UK posters still think Schengen presents a risk, when the UK Home Secretary admits this….

[Bucksnet]

UKBA are not perfect by any means, but under Schengen there would be no checks at any time on people coming in from within the zone.

[LPPSKrisflyer]

There can be checks implemented at any time within the Schengen area. On several occasions, particularly at FRA I have been checked by the border police leaving the aircraft when flying within the Schengen area. There is freedom to implement such checks at any time.

The big difference is these checks are targeted and when they happen, thorough. They are also carried out with professionalism and courtesy. It’s probably a far better approach than the blanket checks on everyone which are carried out by the UKBA which as we now know, serve little if any purpose except to inconvenience travellers.

[NTarrant]

You only have to see what tries to come through Calais to see why Schengen is such a risk. Half of them would not get anywhere near if it wasn’t so easy to cross Europe unchallenged.

If you drive from AMS to PAR from one country to another via another, it is just like driving down the M4(albeit on the wrong side of the road), from Berkshire through Wiltshire to Avon.

[MartynSinclair]

It sickens me to say this, but compared to the UKBA, the Americans appear to have a system that works. They ignore what the rest of the world says about it and couldnt care one bit about the inconvenience it causes to travellers.

Our Home Secretary has just confirmed that our system is bust!

Stop playing politics with UKBA, allow Westminster to manage the security with a budget that provides what is needed. More importantly, tell Europe to butt out of the protocol altogether.

[Bucksnet]

LPPSKrisflyer, those checks are just random checks just like the police do stop and search.

Martyn, we cannot tell Europe to butt out of anything – we need to leave the EU.

[MartynSinclair]

Bucksnet, unfortunately I know Europe has a right to control the way our borders are controlled.

However much I hate DFW, at least the US immigration are doing their job.

I heard on LBC today, some chap saying how difficult it would be to record the names of all border crossings by passengers on buses, therefore until a system is created, UKBA merely check the passports. Perhaps the UKBA ought to see how the Americans handle road traffic border crossings!

I just hope the thick idiots who are in charge of our borders realise that “free candy time” is over and are given the authority and manpower to implement tighter controls, irrespective of what Europe dictates.

[Author]

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