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Craig, I never said UKBA officers should challenge passengers not heading to the UK, and all passengers from new orleans bound for atlanta will get off the plane at ATL. The UK should have passport control at St Pancras, just like the airports, but as it would block an important route for illegals entering the UK, then it probably won’t be allowed.
Martyn, Brussels will not implement correct screening procedures as that is not part of the plan.
Maybe the next forum posters meeting should take place at a bar near Brussels train station, although if we value our personal safety then we might want to stay within the confines of the station and its armed police. On the way back we can all test the Lille Loophole for ourselves. It might also give us a chance to meet some posters who cannot make it to London.14 Dec 2011
If the ‘Lille Loophole’ exists……
Let’s apply Occam’s razor.
A train leaves Brussels for a non-Schengen country, but has an intermediate stop in a Schengen country.
If one deleted the intermediate stop, then there would be no conflict about who should show a passport, it would be everyone.
Or does Eurostar’s incremental revenue override UK national interests.14 Dec 2011
The ruling yesterday by the European court overruling a deportation order by the home office, shows just how weak UK Plc is in terms of the ability to control its own borders.
This is very relevant to our discussion about border control because it again reinforces that UKBA workers may be employed through the UK civil service/home office, but the whole department appears to be ruled by Europe.
Before anyone comments, I am not making any political statement concerning the person yesterday’s decision refereed to – merely commenting on how Europe can overule UKBA. Absolute disgrace!7 Feb 2012
Martyn, the whole country is ruled by the EU. Cameron is Common Purpose, a DVD front operation. If they’ve got the top man, then they control the government. Period.7 Feb 2012
It appears Lincoln was only paartially right, in the UK apparently you can fool all the people all the time. Totally agree with you Martyn but when I express views about the EU needeing to be a free market and not another level of costly undemocratic government I am accuse of being a bad European (which I don’t have a problem with) or extremist.
In the USA there is a view, again from Lincoln,espoused by Obama and by the right that the Government should only do what they can do better than the citizen. I believe this is right and I would further extend it to the EU that the EU should only do what they can do beter than nations. Enabling world trade should be at the top of this list not attempting to rewrite security, foreign and domestic policy. Let us see the EU make a success of the economies of the memeber states, the Euro and the Single Market (all of which are undoubtedly in its remit) before all this political interference and agrandizement. We will not achieve this without raising the level of debate as well as the informedness on the subject.
I know it will offend many but I think there is too little thought on the nature of european integration and too much on the speed. Napoleon wanted to unite Europe, intoruced the metric system and did everything he could to subjugate the continent, was he a good european?7 Feb 2012
The difference between the UK and US RIch, is that the US would have just deported and then worried about the fall out later.
Europe and Human Rights – the theory is great, in practice it very badly flawed.
Is the annual Queen’s speech now vetted by Europe!!??7 Feb 2012
No Martyn, I think he would still be in Guantanamo Bay and the lawyers would be racking up high fees and wikileaks would be publishing what he had for lunch.. Not trying to say USA has better or worse policies than UK or Europe, merely that sometimes a simple philosophy, such as that at which Lincoln excelled often speaks truths which we overlook.7 Feb 2012
I am in the Kingdom, presently (very nice 22 degrees) and was reading the Telegraph on my laptop, when a colleague saw that ‘person’s’ face in the story saying he will be released on bail.
My colleague was astonished and asked ‘why they not send him home to authorities?’
I explained this was because his own country may torture and kill him.
‘Probably true, so what?’ was my colleagues reply.7 Feb 2012
Rich, you are quite right that the EU should do only what it can do better than its member nations. There was a huge debate about this a couple of decades ago, and it (or something similar to it) was enshrined in the Treaty of Maastricht and is referred to as “subsidiarity”. An extract from Wikipedia on the subject reads “Subsidiarity is perhaps presently best known as a general principle of European Union law. According to this principle, the EU may only act (i.e. make laws) where action of individual countries is insufficient. The principle was established in the 1992 Treaty of Maastricht. However, at the local level it was already a key element of the European Charter of Local Self-Government, an instrument of the Council of Europe promulgated in 1985 (see Article 4, Paragraph 3 of the Charter) (which states that the exercise of public responsibilities should be decentralised).”
I also agree with you that the EU should stick to free trade issues. Mind you, although I am European, since I am coming up on the end of my second decade as an emigrant, I feel less inclined (and less entitled) to be critical of Europe nowadays!7 Feb 2012
I think there is an issue that the separation of powers does not work well in the EU. The judiciary and the European COmmision often seem to confuse their role within the legislature, the judiciary and the executive. There are many fine words in teh European Legislation however more thoguht seems to go into the wording of treaties than in their implementation.7 Feb 2012
INSELAFFE….what a smashing word …had to look it up.
Inselaffe is a German word meaning “Island Monkeys”.
It is used, perhaps pejoratively but mostly light heartedly, to describe the people of England, UK. The word is generally used fondly and as part of the friendly and often humorous, competitive banter between the two countries.
The actual meaning behind it refers to the German (and other European countries) stereotypical image of the English as heavy drinking, violent, criminalistic and yobbish.
These characteristics of the English are regularly witnessed by Europeans when visiting the UK, while on vacation elsewhere or at soccer matches, where many Europeans have been victim to the internationally infamous English cultural pastime of hooliganism.
German people offer this behaviour as evidence to a tongue in cheek theory that evolution stalled on the island of Great Britain.
Although the phrase is used in reference to the people of the British Isles, the same stereotype is NOT recognised in the people of the regions Scotland, Ireland and Wales, who, it is considered, have a much less violent and aggressive nature, though still suffering the same commitment to inebriation and constant fight to avoid sobriety.
Incid ..went on a company day trip “charabang”to Calais recently and on the way back we all had to troop through the shed manned by UKBA in the Port(Calais)
Long line of coaches in front but procedure very quick,polite and efficient…and everyone got checked…..err apart from the 4 nice Iraqi guys hiding in the boot….7 Feb 2012
Seems we drink what… about 10 pints of beer and 3.5 bottles of wine…….thought they meant a WEEK…just noticed…..its a year….???
Brings to mind an old phrase…:
Lies, damned lies, and statistics”
a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent’s point
The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881):
However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli’s works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death.
…..Seems however they may have been right..?7 Feb 2012