[MrMichael]

Setting fares and tariffs is an absolute nightmare of a process. Whether it be trains, planes busses hotels or parking getting the rate right is never an exact science. One has to try and work out what demand will be sometimes a year or more in advance. Events, competition, regulations can all come along in less than time your forward plan to scupper the best laid plans. I do not, nor have ever worked or advised HEX, but here is their problem.

First off they have to cover their costs and get a return for shareholders, or in their case the holding company. They were under pressure to build it, and had to let competition in too. How many ways are there from LHR to central London. Well you have 4 train services including the tube, busses, coaches, taxi, mini cab, motorcycle taxi, and private transport. So they are competing against a huge array of options, and have probably the highest costs of them all. So somehow they have to be not so expensive nobody uses it, but they have to charge enough to get a return. That takes considerable and constant trial and error, so for me it is not surprising that the fare structure is an ever moving feast of some considerable complexity. It is also not surprising that their business model is to make it (exLHR) as simple and quick to purchase a ticket as it can be, and to have it as the first option travellers are faced with. I rarely use the HEX, but I would bet my last pound that ex LHR is considerably more busy than ex Paddington. Travellers to LHR are on whole in London and thus can see for themselves other options. It is for that reason I would advise them if they asked that tickets ( I don’t know if this is the case) are at a premium ex LHR and good offers and deals ex Paddington. Personally ( not professionally) I detest the HEX touts now to be seen in arrivals.

[NTarrant]

That is a very good explanation Mr Michael. There is also another angle to the touts airside, we don’t like them because we know there is an alternative. However there will, everyday be a large number of people arriving in the UK for the first time or infrequent visitors who are not that familiar with how to get to London or the cost options.

The touts don’t hassle people, they just call out what they are selling and people have a choice whether to buy or not from them. Ideally all the travel options should be on display airside but that is advertising and not all operators will want to pay for that.

Mr Michael is probably right that exLHR will be busier than exPaddington, I have been to a number of cities where I have used the easy option from the airport and then used something different on return.

[SurreyTraveller01]

MrMichael, I can t think of many train companies that double their fares overnight – that’s simply unheard of. As a train service, Heathrow still enjoys a monopoly to Paddington (the Connect service is jointly run by the HEX so they make sure it’s not competitive). When it comes to rates and profitability, I think airline staff only pay £9 for a rtn on the HEX so an advance ticket at £11.90 (for 90 days) is hardly loss making

[MrMichael]

Instead of thinking of it as a train service, think of it as a form of transport with dynamic pricing…….just like an airline.

[SurreyTraveller01]

it’s definitely a train service – it’s using tracks heavily subsidised by UK taxpayers

[SurreyTraveller01]

I am surprised that no journalist has picked up on such story (or lawyer for unfair practices)

[SimonS1]

What unfair practices would you expect a lawyer to pick up on? I can’t see what they are doing that is illegal.

[SurreyTraveller01]

For example, Heathrow doesn’t enable passengers to make an informed choice about transport options available between LHR and Paddington. Numerous posts on here document this issue

[MrMichael]

I would suggest Surreytraveller1 that although HEX may be a form of guerilla marketing, it is hardly illegal. Once in to landslide arrivals there are plenty of Transport options signposted giving the traveller a myriad of choices. HEX are merely with their touts offering the quickest and easiest way in to central London. Quickest by a considerable margin (albeit few passengers ultimate destination will be Paddington) and easiest because one can get the ticket there and then with no hunting around for a ticket office or machine. From a business point of view eminently sensible, my thoughts on their touts posted previously……illegal…..I think not.

[SimonS1]

I understood that Heathrow Express is not a franchised operator and is not bound by franchise rules or NR Conditions of Carriage.

If so there is no requirement on the ‘informed choices’ front. Why would a business promote its competitors?

Illegal – I doubt it very much.

[PeterCoultas]

Typical of captive consumers being ripped off – the answer is to do your homework! It used to be the taxis that (both senses) took you for a ride at LHR now it’s a train to where few want to end up. The hoppa to hotels is just another example, convenient but expensive and slow. Bus station to Ibis or Holiday Inn for example every few minutes, for us oldies free and takes 10 minutes. The Hoppa from T5 all round the houses, a good half hour and costs £ 4-50.

[SGJNI1961]

ALL the TFL buses between Hatton Cross and T5 are entirely free in each direction to everyone. Does it ever get publicised? No,but the rip off Hoppa Bus is pushed very hard. The money and time I have wasted on that service over the years really annoys me and I feel stupid and conned for not knowing sooner about the regular buses.

[SimonS1]

It’s the same in most places though. In Prague last week I found them promoting the airport bus, however you can take a local bus/metro for peanuts.

Of course that in itself doesn’t make it illegal, just annoying.

[MartynSinclair]

it is no different to any other airport, where limos / taxis are priced high to low, depending on their counter/agent position in terms of closeness to the baggage carrousel..

In this case its a train service…

[MrMichael]

A fascinating thread. I find it fascinating to see the views expressed and the very strong feelings attached to it. It ranges from the illegal to a rip off to expensive to ok good for HEX.

I work in the transport revenue maximisation sector, so this to me is bread and butter. The question here really is what constitutes a rip off?. Is the HEX a rip off or not, a matter of opinion.

A recent London scandal was the street vendor near Westminster charging £5 for a can of coke…was that a rip off? Lets assume the vendor paid 40P for the can, sold it at £5 giving a profit margin of X12.5 his investment. A central London pub on average charges £3 for a glass of coke of about the same size. The difference is the pub as it is post mix (on tap) only paid 3p for the coke syrup and then had to add some water and fizz to it, say 6p. Thus the pub is getting back X 50 of his investment back. Which one if either is a rip off, so what is a reasonable return…how much is a coke at the Burj…I heard £12.

So for me HEX is an expensive option, but not a rip off. To me a rip off is when you pay for X but get Y. If you pay top dollar for something, provided you get what was promised it was not a rip off….it was the price. In most cases prices are based on how much the seller can get, without being so expensive he does not sell enough. Seller must find a balance, and often as with the HEX and with a lot perishable goods, that price will fluctuate……..supply and demand. If HEX sold their product cheap…..they would be accused of monopolism, if they sell it premium, they are accused of ripping people off.

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