[First-Pax]

Point taken Martyn.

I vote for BA to work to the Singapore model then. Exclusive should be exclusive – not a pretence.

[LPPSKrisflyer]

Surely if BA offer as many upgrades as seems to be suggested there are too many premium seats. That seems to contradict an earlier point made about the reduction in Y seats on the four class 777 where there are very few. Surely more Y seats are what is needed. You do not maintain a premium product be contiually devaluing it with free upgrades and give-aways no matter what you sell. Are they at the point yet of the American carriers who upgrade everyone.

SIA are, as I’ve recorded elsewhere ruthless about guarding their premium products especially on the A380 to a point where I have seen them downgrade from C rather than upgrade to F and off load before upgrade to C. That may not be popular but they know exactly who to offend i.e, someone on a reduced fare premium ticket (they do sell one or two) who travels with them rarely and who’s business they would not miss.

Now if only BA were that good and that profitable. OTOH, at least BA’s website works!

[robsmith100]

It should rememered that getting BA to change their business model like those of SQ, CX, EK etc is not that easy, Unlike these carriers BA is not govt/state owned unlike the large proportion of middle eastern and asian airlines. So funding is most likely exceptional high especially from the gulf states.

Many of the fleets from theses regions are also very small so making changes (upgrades) to hard products can be done very quickly. Middle eastern based airlines also employ much of their staff from Asia for both ground and air positions and most likely have cheaper fuel bills.

The only real exception here is Cathay, which I think is not govt owned by part of Swire and the airline is only one small part of the holding company.

[First-Pax]

I appreciate what you say RobSmith, but the most successful companies are the ones who actually deliver rather than make excuses as to why they can’t.

Time for BA to succeed !

[robsmith100]

First-Pax, I dont think BA have ever stopped delivering, the issue for them is that the benchmarks for service have and are always changing. With the influx of new/growing airlines over the past 15 years competion is strife! I echo the comments made by VK earlier in this thread and other threads on this issue.

While attending the BA Open day last weekend with fellow BT forum memebers, it was great to see the inovation and investment BA have made and are constantly making.

Hang in there everyone!!!

[Hippocampus]

I think there’s good reason to be cautiously optimistic about BA/IAG’s future. It’s finances are now in good shape and traffic (particularly premium) has recovered strongly this year. The early signs are that the joint business with American Airlines is bringing more traffic to BA.

Soundings are that there are lots of product/service innovations and improvements on the way (see recent announcements about iPads and new champagnes) and with IAG potentially growing at LHR through buying bmi and/or Aer Lingus, it seems that after spending nearly ten years addressing legacy/structural issues it’s ready to get out there and compete.

I doubt BA will be dusting off “the world’s favourite” strapline but I think it is now ready to put its best foot forward, which is what should be expected of an airline based in one of the biggest premium O&D markets in the world.

[LPPSKrisflyer]

I can’t help but think BA are already missing opportunities. SQ and EK have set a benchmark for first, LH have set a slightly different one but still very high.

BA have introduced a new F cabin which is a makeover of the old one and it still has far too many seats in the space which they can’t fill with revenue pax and therefore they fill them with upgrades. I certainly wouldn’t want to pay (though sometimes I have no choice) the fares they charge for something that lacks edge and is essentially an out of date product already. It’s a bit like old LH F, difficult to understand why they haven’t done something better when looking at the competition.

I would really like BA to succeed but they do seem to lack edge and vision, another reason why I think a clear out at Waterside is long overdue.

[eirtraveller]

Just off a flight from the US in CW. Mixed fleet crew were very good overall, I think I got lucky and got the friendly one…a lot of glaring going on the other side of the cabin.

Food-wise, I must say this may rank as one of the worst airline food experiences in recent years. The bread was cold and stale, but the main course – Butter Chicken – was quite unbelievable. Brown meat stringy fatty chicken in a brown goo, with mushy (completely overcooked) rice, and nan bread that looked great but tasted horrific – sweet and doughy. Couldn’t eat it. Dessert was good, if simple: fresh berries with mascarpone.

But the main was exactly as you would expect in the tin tray in economy.

Shame. At least BA passengers won’t be putting on weight. Perhaps that’s the covert plan?

Arrivals lounge staff excellent, no problem with a special request for poached eggs, even though breakfast had finished.

On a side note – apparently the fabulous Elemis “spritzers” have been axed. Pity.

So a mixed bag, really. Window CW seat (if it has to be a 777) is still a great way to travel – they have the comfort factor so well refined with the low-slung and pitched seat.

[MartynSinclair]

“BA premium cabins can be had for a bargain” – from VK @ 12.27 today

and

“First Class should be what the phrase implies – the very best.” – from First-Pax ” 11.35 today

Please explain how passengers can expect the very best for a bargain price? The airlines cant afford to provide or sustain “the very best” at “bargain” prices.

[FlyingChinaman]

eirtraveller: It would take great effort to ruin fresh berries and mascarpone!!!

A little fasting in-flight is not a bad thing either!

[First-Pax]

Martyn – your fragmented quote of my post alongside VK’s comment gives the impression that I am looking for something for nothing.

To the contrary, I am very happy to pay extra for a proper standard in the First cabin. I suspect a lot of other people are as well.

The problem with BA management is that they don’t seem to be able to divorce their (sometimes justified in other areas) penny pinching ways from what should be the most exclusive way to travel by air.

[FlyingChinaman]

First-Pax: I think BA should focus on their FIRST product like the other highly successful airlines such as CX, Ek and SQ by making the cabin very exclusive and alluring for their high revenue passengers with a matching ground service for this type of stylish travel.

OR abandoning this cabin class all together!!! No point in offering a wishy washy service as there are plenty of premium travellers in the know.

VK might again be served in F if they go down this route.

[VintageKrug]

Unfortunately, the market for First is not as strong as it once was, is much more price competitive than used to be the case and is highly cyclical.

First is still exclusive, the ground facilities (Concorde Rooms) are excellent, and the service is far from wishy-washy. There’s always room for improvement, but when you consider the often relatively short flight durations, volume of passengers carried and standard of competition on most routes (the likes of United, AA, Virgin) I think BA has positioned F correctly.

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/firstnew/public/en_us

[MartynSinclair]

First-Pax, my point was directed as a generic question as most comments appear to critisize the service and hard product but not the price.

It seems that business/first is being marketed much more as an acceptable and affordable option, thereby reducing its exclusivity. The benefits and services provided have all changed, the most obvious one being the seats have all been vastly improved (I remember flying LHR-LAX on BA for the Olympics in seats that were worse than the old cradle busienss class seats) against a general lowering of the inflight service by the cabin crew.

I understand that there are some passengers wanting an Orient Express – Silver Seas – Seabourn experience, but my point is that this can not happen with bargain prices.

I am not sure what you are prepared to pay for First or Business class full service, but one option is to step up the ladder to executive jet charter, which enables passengers to tailor a journey, just like a Saville Row tailor creates a suit.

You are even able to have your own staff on board as long as they are fully supervised by the licensed cabin crew member (subject to passenger numbers and aircraft size).

Its a great way to travel and whilst expensive, not that expensive if there is a group of you and to keep in with the theme of the thread, there should be no complaints about the food!

[LPPSKrisflyer]

@Flying Chinaman: I agree, either BA need to up the game in first to the levels of SQ, EK, LH and CX or abandon it all together.

I suppose the current offering is comparable to companies like TG (though they only have ten seats in the same size F cabin so more exclusive) only it costs about double the price.

I don’t think there’s a place for a fourteen seat F cabin charging the fares they do and I’m sure it will fail.

IMO the Concorde Room compares poorly with the LH F Terminal or lounges at FRA so BA just don’t win on any front.

[Author]

Posts