[LuganoPirate]

I’m hearing that rather than close Russian airspace to all EU airlines, Putin will target just one to make his point, most likely one from a country that is most friendly with the USA! If so, this would be quite a clever move and it will be interesting to see how many other airlines refuse to overfly in a show of brotherly EU solidarity?

In today’s FT there was an interesting article on how Malaysia’s quiet and persistent diplomacy paid off by engaging with the rebels rather than with Kiev, as opposed to the Australians who only spoke with Kiev in a loud and demanding manner and didn’t get very far.

[BigDog.]

New clue leads to additional search area.

…”Search for plane to resume next month amid claims plane, which disappeared on March 8 with 239 people on board, could have turned south earlier than previously thought”…..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/11060461/New-clue-emerges-suggesting-possible-location-of-MH370.html

[BigDog.]

EU flight ban over Russian Airspace – increasingly likely as EU ramps up sanctions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29107832

[AMcWhirter]

BigDog – Thanks for the info. But I did write about a possible overflying ban last month.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/100738/russia-to-ban-overflying-by-eu-airlines

[LuganoPirate]

Hasn’t happened yet, but if Russia bans overflying it may be targeted rather than a blanket EU ban.

[canucklad]

Any serious government, whether it be western or otherwise should subsidise the cost of their airlines that currently overfly “Soviet” airspace. And pro-actively withdraw them before Moscow does. and it should be done en masse!!

It is utterly scandalous that people’s relatives are still at the site…..and those bandits’ strut about like Putin’s over inflated local despots with no respect for human life……totally sickening !

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/07/flight-mh17-australia-and-malaysia-want-to-revisit-crash-site-for-remains

[Kimi_CDG]

Found on Twitter (@Maitre_eolas account), this extract from the Minsk agreements signed earlier this week:

5. Ensure pardon and amnesty by enacting the law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that took place in certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions of Ukraine.

http://www.elysee.fr/declarations/article/package-of-measures-for-the-implementation-of-the-minsk-agreements/

Does that mean immunity for the attack on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17?

[Edski777]

Both the Dutch Prime Minister and the Ukranian president Porosjenko have stated at the EU summit in Brussels last week, following the Minsk negotiations, that immunity for those that downed MH17 was not included in the agreement.
The terrorists that downed the airliner should be brought to justice. Whether they will ever be identified and caught is a whole different matter. It is most likely, given the alleged complexity to shoot down airliners at that altitude, that the perpetrators were Russian soldiers/volunteers and that they will be protected/shielded off by the Putin regime.

[canucklad]

See my above comment……

We and our governments in the western so called civilized world have failed the victims of MH17. ….

Still totally disgusted and ashamed by our appeasement.

[LuganoPirate]

Or, down the road, one person will be offered up as the sacrificial lamb. Lockerbie is an example and there’s still doubt over the guilt of the Libyans in that act.

The other problem is that MH 17 did not belong to a major western airline, as did Pan Am. So no strutting by western politicians as there’s nothing much to be gained from it.

I deplore this attitude as I do the phrase given to certain countries “life is cheap there”. It’s not, nor is it anywhere and the people who bought down MH17 must be bought to justice or else we’ll never be safe when flying if others think this type of act can be carried out with impunity.

[BigDog.]

Igor Girkin formally accused of orchestrating the shooting down of the Malaysia Airlines flight in east Ukraine

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11742865/MH-17-Russian-separatist-leader-sued-for-900-million-by-crash-victims.html

Yet again the US takes the lead in bringing European crimes and criminals to justice. Lets hope that no matter how long it takes that Girkin will come to trial.

Also hope that Malaysian recovers from their double catastrophe.

[PaulRWoods]

On June 20, 2015 I left Amsterdam flying MH019 to Kuala Lumpur and returned on July 7, 2015 on MH 016. The plane avoided Afghanistan and Ukraine on both flights.
Business Class Amsterdam – KL – Manila for less than € 2,000.
Staff friendly (as always), food good (I like their satay), slept most of the time.

[BigDog.]

What most observers already knew, has now been confirmed

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34511973

It was a Russian made missile.

Russian officials do not agree with the Dutch Investigation findings using missile test/experiment to debunk the report.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11927963/MH17-Russian-missile-company-seeks-to-debunk-official-report-into-air-disaster.html

[AnthonyDunn]

@BigDog. – 13/10/2015 13:05 BST

And there is substantial evidence (both phone and radio intercepts and video footage shot in the area from whence the Russian made missile was launched) to provide far more than merely circumstantial evidence that it was fired from an area controlled by the Russian puppets/Ukrainian “rebels”. Owing to the training required to operate such a system, this will (in all probability) have been fired by Russian “volunteers” operating in the area and under the full control of the Russian ministry of defence.

It is because of the weight of evidence that the Russians conspired to muddy the water with the phoney briefing given in Moscow by the Russian ministry of defence and the attempted doctoring of Wikipedia entries about the flight envelope of the (Russian supplied) Ukrainian airforce plane that the Russians stated was being targeted. It also explains why the Russian troll machine based out of St Petersburg went into overdrive all over the western meedjah to try and deflect the blame. In so far as the report of the Dutch investigators gets any coverage within Russia, it will be to repeat the calumnies and lies of the Putinista propaganda machine. Indeed, according to BBC Radio 4’s “The World at One”, the Russians are pre-emptively trying it on already.

Putin’s finger prints and those of his satraps are all over this episode of mass murder. So no change there then.

[canucklad]

You’re spot on AD, and I make no apologies for repeating what I said months ago……and for hopscotching in and out of related topics on this forum.

On the “Security done well” topic, I questioned why we never learn our lesson.

Our security is at risk, as long as there are those out there who put little value into the wonder of life, yet we currently have turned a blind eye to an outrage that has implicated those people who don’t. , and all because they have the backing of a powerful individual, who manages his country like a personal fiefdom……

Shame falls on us all, for morally justifying our own reasons for not demanding justice for the victims of MH17, after all, it could have been anyone of us on that plane.
Or indeed any plane, train, bus or boat we board in the future !!

I’d love to see a threatened boycott of the Russian World Cup…Only then will President Putin feel his ego being undermined !

[Author]

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