[BigDog.]

I agree Martyn, Canucklad that it is not a desirable situation to have passenger airliners equipped with “countermeasures”.

However from a purely pragmatic perspective at least countermeasures, although undesirable, are a feasible solution to protecting vulnerable airliners if one wishes to go down that route.

On the other hand, Walsh’s suggestion of banning surface to air missiles is utterly naïve and fatuous for the reasons I noted earlier (@03/08/2014 09:37 GMT) Whilst the continued public gibes at fellow CEO’s are puerile and unprofessional.

[BigDog.]

A less than reliable source is reporting that Russia is “considering” closing its airspace to European countries in a tit-for-tat response to those imposing an embargo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2716348/BA-Virgin-passengers-face-longer-journeys-Far-East-destinations-Russia-considers-banning-western-airlines-airspace-revenge-sanctions.html

Methinks although unlikely, if it did come to fruition, it is a price worth paying.

[AMcWhirter]

Hello BigDog

I’ve just come across your posting after having written my news piece which is now online:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/100738/russia-to-ban-overflying-by-eu-airlines

[JordanD]

If it comes to pass, will be interesting to consider the routings taken to the far side of Asia. Come in Anchorage, your time has come. (Again).

[LuganoPirate]

In days of old etc. we’d fly Europe – Dubai – Delhi – BKK – Singapore in 18 hours. I guess we’ll go back to that route or thereabouts!

[Edski777]

wouldn’t worry to much about it. First of all it would mainly affect flight between Europe and North East Asia (Korea, Japan and China). All other routes (apart from Scandinavia) to places like Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Oz take more southern routes.

Also would Putin like to hurd Aeroflot even more. Aeroflot is the recipient of the charges for overflying Siberia and they are a partner of some major airlines such as AF/KL, who will probably take this up at the highest level.
And what to think of Russia’s main trading partners in the East: China and Japan? They won’t easily accept that they are being isolated from Europe.

These provocations will also lead to the next steps in sanctions from the West.

Interesting political times ahead.

[AMcWhirter]

Hello Edski777

Not sure it is as easy as you say.

It is true that the effects to those Asian destinations reached via the Silk Route or southerly route would not be affected in terms of distance.

Let us hope nothing comes to pass …. but as noted in the BT piece, could these already crowded air routes between Europe cope with the extra demand ? In this case I am mainly referring to those very few routes which avoid flying over Ukraine, Syria or Iraq.

One point I did not mention – in my haste to write the copy – is the fact that flights to Hong Kong and areas of southern mainland China will not suffer too much because they should be able to route via the ex-Soviet republics in Central Asia. That airspace was closed to most Western carriers in the Cold War days and, of course, is now available to them.

[stevescoots]

I assume that Asian and Me carriers will not be affected

[LuganoPirate]

I was wondering about that as well Steve. There’s no reason why it should apply to them or for that matter Swiss which is not part of the EU.

[BTMEEditor]

EK will stop serving Erbil “for operational reasons” from 12/8. Baghdad (4x weekly) and Basra (daily) continuing for now. Hearing of more changes involving Iraq, will revert when officially confirmed.

[BigDog.]

Tom/Admin

Understandably this thread has evolved from reporting the crash; the tragic passenger consequences; the causal analysis and restriction of investigators. It has now logically developed into prevention; routing over war zones; embargoes and potential closure of airspace.

As it has progressed from the crash (thread title) would it be possible to cut this last page of posts and create a new one around airline routes turmoil – potential issues, impacts and consequences?

[GrahamSmith]

We aren’t able to cut posts and paste them into a new thread, unfortunately. Besides, I think the conversation is still loosely on topic and has, as you say, logically developed so we’ll leave it as is for the time being. Thanks.

[BigDog.]

Putin “decrees” initial retaliatory measures – it currently includes mainly imports/ agricultural consumables.
No mention of airspace restrictions as yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-28680656

[canucklad]

If the Soviet Union ,oops sorry Russia is indeed massing troops on the Ukrainian border then I’m quite sure lost revenue to Aeroflot is the least of Stalin’s ,oops sorry again , Putin’s worries.

And as time passes inexorably on , MH17 becomes a more of a by line than headline,and the guilty rub their blooded hands clean..

[BigDog.]

Malaysia Airlines to be Nationalised.

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/100750/malaysia-airlines-to-be-nationalised

Sensible move. Some reckon it may also be rebranded. I hope it recovers.

[Author]

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