[DavidGordon10]

Dear Papillion, this post, and your earlier one, are spot-on. If one cannot pay a non-threatenng compliment, what can one do? In a restaurant near London on Saturday, I said to one of the waiting staff that the new uniform really suited her. She looked very beautiful, and charming – and she is 40 years (guess) younger than me so there is no question that I am chatting her up in a way that deserves the slap that you describe (and that is so often deserved). Outcome – she felt good (I think) – and she blew me a kiss as we (I was with Mrs Dr G) left.

[travelworld2]

I’d add to the list- and this applies to all single travellers, not just female- when in a hotel bar/restaurant always take a book/iPad/kindle or such like so that if you start getting hassled by someone you’d rather not talk to you can say in a cheerful tone “I’m really sorry but I’m enthralled by this/need to e mail my office/whatever and much as I’d like to chat I simply can’t.” It usually puts people off. The trick is not to get trapped in a situation where there is nothing else obvious to do but talk to them. On an aircraft, try the same approach with the IFE. Or feign sleep. I accept that it’s wholly unacceptable that you have to resort to such tactics but better that than unwelcome attentions.

[CXDiamond]

Oh dear, call it feminine intuition but I just have a sense that all may not be what it seems with some posts here:

” Goldielox – 24/02/2014 15:13 GMT

This is a good topic. I have had my share of guys taking the shot at a usually it is just by staring or riding up behind you on boarding when after the plane has landed and you are removing your stuff from the overhead locker. The last time this happened to me I had to move seats to a lower cabin. I find Asian men are the worst especially if you are Caucasian. Once travelling alone to HKG and was being hassled by a guy in a hotel after putting in a complaint the hotel’s general manager called me and said he had told security and staff to look out for me and told me to report any problems with guests and visitors. One night I was allowed me to use the gym all to myself and had been personally escorted by a member of security and stayed with me while I worked out then escorted me back to my suite.
Spoke to a cabin crew friend (female) on this topic and thankfully she has never had to endure this sort of behaviour but has heard horror stories. She also said she takes her profession seriously and it’s absolutely not ok when receiving service on a respected airline that they think it’s ok to take advantage of the situation! And if that ever happened at my work they would be barred for life and more!!
Thankfully my business travel days are now numbered for the foreseeable future.”

The follow up posts are in a style I think we’ve seen before.

And to go back to an old thread:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/travelling-alone#postn_37697

” BeckyBoop – 29/10/2011 05:16 GMT

Just got back from Hong Kong and the first time travelling alone and the flight out was scary to say the least was sitting in first on Cathay (which is completely overrated but that’s another story) and blokes kept to eying me up and kept walking pass every 5 minutes looking at me. One idiot even had the nerve to have a picture taken with me and 2 others left me numbers. Staff on the flight were very rude and gave me evil stairs all the way no smile… nothing. I got up and went and sat in economy which was almost empty and sat with an old couple for the last few hours. Didn’t sleep the whole flight and felt completely wrecked on the other side after landing.

One lunchtime I went out of the hotel to the nearest shopping centre and was getting stares from lots of men and women and with some men walking very close to me, so I went back to the hotel. Then even in the bar, pool, gym, lift and in the women’s toilet!!! I was getting the same treatment, whole trip made me feel so uncomfortable. So when I wasn’t working spent all my time in my suite and ate room service watching CNN, social networking with Facebook and BT forum doing some Pilates and taking long hot baths. Thankfully three days after I got there the boys from the office arrived and everything was fine from there on. as I felt more relaxed and safer.

Spoke to the girl in the hotel reception about my problem and she was lovely. She said she couldn’t see anything wrong with me, she even went out and got me a couple of emergency girly bits that night on her way home and dropped then off for me in the morning because I wasn’t prepared to pay the hotel prices or go out on my own. She even spoke to the manager general manager who called me and said he had told security and all staff to look out for me and told me to report any problems with guests and visitors. He even one night allowed me to use the gym all to myself and had personally escorted me there with two members of the security team, one of them stayed with me while I worked out then escorted me back. The manager even got me a complementary manicure to cheer me up!! 😉

The flight back was much better too. I didn’t get hassled and crew were great but unable to sleep because of being worried about other passengers 🙁 didn’t fancy watching any IFE so just listened to music and that’s when I though I would start writing about my experience of travelling alone and start this thread.

This was not the first trip to Hong Kong but the first alone, usually all my trips are with an executive of the company, so always have someone with me at all times. I never had this problem in Barcelona which I have done solo on a couple of times on one night stays. When I have been in New York I have been happy to work around on my own, if I am home in London o am the first to kick up a fuss and make a scene even on my own if I am not happy. My boy friend would take care of anything physical 😉

What responsibilities do employers have for there staff travelling alone? I am afraid to tell my boss about what happen because I don’t want him to think he cant let me travel alone and stop me from going places.

All this has now made me think how I would react if I was in a country and war broke out? I would turn into a nervous wreck and wouldn’t know what to do or go?

How do you complain about someone else on a plane or in a different country???

Any other girlies or guys had problems??

xx”

Just a hunch, that’s all but it’s not the first reincarnation of a certain poster and although I’m about to move from Hong Kong after living there for many years I remembered the first post because it seemed so at odds with reality here then and the revamp seems the same.

[1nfrequent]

goldielox – I don’t see anything here from the Forum chaps that strikes me as male egotism but maybe I’m not looking hard enough. I do agree though that PG might want to try flyertalk as well – never hurts to get a wider canvass of opinion. Asking your female colleagues would be a good idea too.

Papillon – yup, I’m of the female persuasion. I’ve got a certificate and everything. 🙂

1F

[SimonS1]

CX Diamond – interesting. Sadly it quickly became clear “Becky” didn’t have a scooby what she was talking about.

Her bizarre comments about Dubai, didn’t know where Tripoli is, and of course quick to give an opinion only to frequently find when challenged that she had never used the provider in question.

Oh and of course it was frankly disgusting that I went to Dubai and flew Emirates 🙂

http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/Beirut,-November-2012

Thankfully I thought of late the forum had moved on a bit.

[IanFromHKG]

While I don’t disagree that women are particularly vulnerable, we chaps can get unwelcome attention too (I have twice resorted to stating (untruthfully!) that I have a boyfriend in order to deter persistent women, which works like a charm (although obviously it is not something I could say in all situations!)

As to a suggestion made earlier that “If flying business use carriers that such as AC/BA that have non- interacting seats” – well, I have to say that one of the many things I dislike about the BA J seats is that you end up eyeballing your neighbour for at least an hour of the time you are on the plane – and particularly so on the new planes, I gather, since crew control the dividers and they are therefore down for take-off and landing with no option to override.

The reality is that nowadays we all tread a fine line between being naturally pleasant and indulging in normal social interaction with our fellow man/woman, and being perceived as an unwelcome creep. I think it will be a sad day when the latter outweighs the former.

To the OP – I would check this with a lawyer in your jurisdiction but I think it would be worthwhile when doing any sensitivity training to point out that just because employees are not in the office it doesn’t mean they are not “on work time”. Certainly under English law, to give an example, if one employee makes unwanted advances to another while they are on a business trip that can still constitute workplace harrassment

[canucklad]

CX Diamond.
The test in your theory will be around about the time to start promoting a certain food event : )

Evening Ian,
It was that seat that I was specifically talking about, but not in the down position. You’re right about how anti-social it is because it’s not a natural position for people to have a conversation.
And keeping on topic Ian, you’re 2nd opinion on my mates advice to us the first time we went to HK would be interesting.

With our best interests at heart, and the fact that he knew we were just there for the pubs and nothing else, and taking into account our general naivety, he said if you ended up talking to a non-western girl to start off with a checking question …….. “Are you working tonight?” .
To ensure that we didn’t get involved in nonsense, so to speak. The result— I ended up terrified talking to any local lasses excepting for the girls in the DB 7/11 !!
And still, after becoming a frequent visitor I still suffer from apprehension, even when I’m not in LKF or Wan Chai !! : )

On a side note, I’ve used the boyfriend ruse as well, and not quite as successfully.. This girl announced to me in a very flirty look that she enjoyed a particular cocktail!! My ex’s brother was with me in a pub & I used your ruse. Big mistake, the lass was even more persistent and became even more predatory as she then announced that we were both cute! : )

[Papillion53]

Morning CXDiamond – I was actually thinking about you last night and HKLady, as two current female business travellers who post on BT, who surely could share your with wealth of experience with Poshgirl58.

And when I saw your poster name this morning, I thought, great, “thought transference” really works! 🙂

But, alas, no, rather than offer advice which I am sure, without question or doubt, that you would be able to offer, you head back to digging up old posts with some suggestion of “female intuition” of a previous poster!

[Globe_trotter]

I haven’t posted for ages (very busy year end and start to the New Year) but – and I know this is totally off-topic, so apologies (I’m braced for comments along the lines of “No comments and then this…”) – since CXDiamond raised the subject of the persona (or personae) behind “BeckyBoop”, as a long-term reader of the forum, I’ve always thought that “BeckyBoop” was something of a spoof team effort since the posting styles varied so wildly and, in many cases – including the one copied above – “she” seemed to be saying things in a way that a guy (or guys), masquerading as a girl, could think a girl might post. I remember one where “she” said that “she” stole a salad from the Club Kitchen and hid it in her handbag: it didn’t seem real when I read it just as the posting regarding supposed sexual harassment in HK doesn’t. And I say that as a guy.

[handbag]

As R Ferguson said, it is very rare that this happens. Totally agree that if a passenger wants support then to contact the Crew and we do our best to help in an appropriate way.

I can count on one hand the times that someone has told me they have had a problem and I have now been flying for over 28 years.

It made me start thinking about why I rarely hear about it. I would suggest that the majority of western woman are confident in dealing with unwanted attention, especially if they are a frequent traveller. I certainly know if someone was being painful, I would have no problem in firstly politely saying I needed to read , listen etc and if that failed making quite clear I would like to be left alone.

The last time I can remember being asked for help was from a woman from Middle East who had a spare seat next to her. A guy woke her up and said he wanted to sit next to her and talk. She came and told me and He was asked to go back to his original seat, as it was unfair of him to wake the lady from her sleep to talk. He didn’t object and I asked the Crew to keep an eye on the situation. Asked her to let me know if she felt bothered again.

[handbag]

As R Ferguson said, it is very rare that this happens. Totally agree that if a passenger wants support then to contact the Crew and we do our best to help in an appropriate way.

I can count on one hand the times that someone has told me they have had a problem and I have now been flying for over 28 years.

It made me start thinking about why I rarely hear about it. I would suggest that the majority of western woman are confident in dealing with unwanted attention, especially if they are a frequent traveller. I certainly know if someone was being painful, I would have no problem in firstly politely saying I needed to read , listen etc and if that failed making quite clear I would like to be left alone.

The last time I can remember being asked for help was from a woman from Middle East who had a spare seat next to her. A guy woke her up and said he wanted to sit next to her and talk. She came and told me and He was asked to go back to his original seat, as it was unfair of him to wake the lady from her sleep to talk. He didn’t object and I asked the Crew to keep an eye on the situation. Asked her to let me know if she felt bothered again.

[Poshgirl58]

Now had the chance to read all the posts and picked up some points that I had not thought of already. Also we seem to have avoided the “verbal spats” that happen on other forum sites (TA, for one!).

rferguson, AsiaPacific, handdbag and Goldielox – I agree that most incidents are booze related. Going off topic, why do cabin crew continue to serve obviously tipsy passengers. Glad to hear that in most cases, cabin crew will respond. Also noted comments about “cultural differences” . A colleague who is Romanian could not understand the problem when I discussed it with her and her home country is classed as Western. It’s good to see that Thai have a zero tolerance, perhaps it is the respected carriers that know what to do. I’ve found that sometimes it pays to be snobbish. Survey will be conducted.

MartynSinclair – good suggestion about forming a network for each destination. Most hotels seem to take lone female traveller security seriously although there are still some who think we are only interested in fluffy robes and glossy magazines. As for “creepy travellers”, I caused amusement at a UK airport when I asked for an aisle seat to avoid being trapped by “spooky man”.

Comments from LuganoPirate and Esselle (24 Feb) were harsh but fair!!

batteryoperator, 1F – not a large enough company to deal direct with suppliers so will be looking at how appointed travel management company handles this topic. Have already mentioned to management about cost and resource. Realised that male colleagues will have to be included. Being met by a pre-arranged car service or local agent is an essential for some of the countries where we work. Have registered on FlyerTalk.

Papillion53 – as I remember a businesswoman character in a Barbara Taylor Bradford novel said “we will only ever be equal when we are allowed in the men’s room”. I too was brought up the old-fashioned way where we were taught that good manners cost nothing. Why are young women these days full of so much angst. I feel sorry for men too as I still like a door to be opened for me, etc. Have list of key UK airlines to contact.

nmh1204 – yes, do appreciate that women can be a problem too.

CXDiamond – that post also made be suspicious. A lot of information and a startling exhibition of naivety. I would have doubts about putting her forward for specialist warzone training, but I think she would back out long before then anyway. If her boss has not got a duty of care in place, more fool him. If he has and she has ignored it, then she should not be travelling.

canucklad, Ian from HKG – amongst the suggestions you stated the obvious but often forgotten is one of representing the company/being on work time.

This post is briefer than the original one that for some reason didn’t make it!

[SimonS1]

Poshgirl58 – 27/02/2014 12:31 GMT
Going off topic, why do cabin crew continue to serve obviously tipsy passengers.

Exactly. This is something that can easily be addressed. Poeple who drink in the airport, lounge etc. Then carry on drinking on board. Good crew will anticipate the problem rather than wait for it to occur.

[Cloud-9]

In this age of equality, there must surely be very little the average western woman would need to protect her from the advances of a predatory male! It is possible to ignore the chat up lines – but some men are charming and interesting so it must not be taboo to talk to the LF beside you. In my experience, the thing they appreciate most is help with getting cabin bags in and out of the overhead lockers – esp if vertically challenged!

[nmh1204]

PG – sorry if I came across rude or offensive. Didn’t mean to

[Author]

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