[stevescoots]

sit next to me!, i dont drink and I ignore everyone on a flight! 🙂 at most I might help lift a heavy bag out the overhead.

on a serious note i do come across far too many creepy guys that i observe making bulls**** small talk to women who are clearly just wishing he would dissapear

[DavidGordon10]

This is a serious problem and one wonders why so many are so insensitive.

Leaving aside the seriously worrying harassment, the only circumstances when a man may speak, uninvited, to a woman he does not know are:
1. When she is leaving, and he will never see her again, as he is holding door open for her he may say “that is a beautiful dress (or suit, or hat, as appropriate)”. This is only permissible if the dress really is beautiful.
2. When her clothes are on fire (literally, not metaphorically) and she seems not to be aware.

[AsiaPacific]

My wife worked for many many years in the First Class cabin with TG. Quite a number of years ago , a creepy western gentleman thinking he was ‘gods’ gift decided to grope her. To their credit – upon arrival in BKK ( the old DMK) he was duly hauled off by the police, shackled, sentenced, and spent a few months in Thailands finest accom. Let that be a lesson to anyone who tries it on with crew on Thai. Might be different with other ppl or other Asian carriers .. but that was our personal experience with creepy ‘farang’ …

[stevescoots]

DavidG,

” the only circumstances when a man may speak, uninvited, to a woman he does not know are”

Sounds more like sharia law to me, there will be a lot of sad single men and women in the world , of course unless we go to arranged marrage for all.

nothing wrong with a man speaking to a woman in everyday conversation, men just need to get the hint in the first words that she is not interested in you, your money, your job, how many points you have, what car you drive or your finger the thumb span. like wise ladies I dont want to know how little johnny is doing at school or you really like champers when flying.

[Goldielox]

Don’t get me wrong I quite enjoy talking to people when flying. However I would never want to sit next to anyone from this forum considering the high number of snobs and the DYKWIA culture that plagues it.

DavidGordon10 – I advise you NEVER to do the following unless you actually know her!
“When she is leaving, and he will never see her again, as he is holding door open for her he may say “that is a beautiful dress (or suit, or hat, as appropriate)”. This is only permissible if the dress really is beautiful.”

A smile will suffice.

[Papillion53]

Goldiellox – ah they’re not coming across as bad as that, surely???

This is a tough one, for all we women want to be treated as equals, it is still very much a man’s world in some situations I fear and I stand ready to be shot down in flames for saying this!

Having worked for years in the hospitality business, I could write a book on the shenanigans in that world. Thankfully, I was brought up in a good old-fashioned Scottish household and had my head firmly screwed on. Ok we partied with the best of them, but we knew when to stop. These days when I see what goes on with young people fuelled with drink and drugs, especially on the telly, I think it gives the message to others that everyone is “game” and this is the norm, and what happens in real life all the time. If you have been brought up in this climate, then it would appear to me that from a man or indeed sadly a woman’s point of view, anyone is fair “game”! As for older men coming on to younger or any women for that matter, they are just deserving of a good slap, and would more than likely get one if their wives found out how they behaved! When I have been in an uncomfortable situation, I have a cache of put down lines which I draw upon and believe you me, you do not want to be on the receiving end of any of them or MrsP’s look of disapproval! But then that all comes from experience. When drink is involved – drink in, wit out!

But I also feel sorry for men who are only acting as true gentlemen, e.g. Paying a compliment, holding a door open, offering their seat, etc., and they are met with scorn or brush off from some women, usually the younger ones. I am delighted if any man holds the door open, or stands when I get up from the dinner table to powder my nose, or simply smiles at me and I know they are actually telling me “you look very nice MrsP” – it is all quite innocent and I wish the young women these days enjoyed such delights. We have a few gay friends and I just adore their openness and they have no qualms at all to compliment you openly on your dress, or hair, or a piece of jewellery. We have sadly lost an innocence of past times, gawd I sound so old, but I find it very sad indeed when a man can’t pay a woman a compliment without fear of rebuff. In fact I often pay women compliments, and did so only last week in M&S, smiling at a beautifully dressed lady, and commented to her that she looked stunning – well, she did and her response was a smile with a thank you, you have made my day. I think it takes a certain confidence to do this, and do it in such a way that she was not made to feel uncomfortable or that I was “trying to pick her up!” Would I compliment a man, other than my husband, in the same way – probably not as I would be worried that it would be taken the “wrong way”.

My own efforts to look after female travellers as guests in hotels, would have been to ensure when they checked in, their room number was never announced (in fact that should be the case for every guest, not just women), they were in a room close to reception or a lift (as mentioned above no long walks along bedroom corridors), not on the ground floor, not in the middle of a big group (especially all male), and offered the option to dine in their room and the room service order would be taken up by a female member of staff, with a phone call to advise the order was on its way.

[MartynSinclair]

“When she is leaving, and he will never see her again, as he is holding door open for her he may say “that is a beautiful dress (or suit, or hat, as appropriate)”

I see no reason for NOT complimenting a lady on the way she looks. Its only harassment if that compliment continues in a manner not welcomed… by the recipient.

I accept there are a lot of “creepy travellers” – but this also applied to women, when facing male hunks…

I dress smart to get noticed – and I don’t shout sexual harassment when I occasionally receive a nice comment.

Quite frankly, and this may be well out of line…. but if women don’t want the compliments, don’t dress to get noticed. On a positive note, I have only got smiles back from women whom I have complimented.

As Frank Carson always says – “its the way you tell them”…

When this thread was started, I thought it would be addressing all sorts of issues that the lone single female traveller has – however, it seems to be all centred and compliments women may get for looking nice, as well as men trying to chat women up.

is this all that’s on your agenda Poshgirl58 or are there other issues that you feel face single female travellers that you will be including in your research to your company….??

[nmh1204]

Steve, its not just men that need to take the hint, its women too.
In certain parts of the world, women hassle men for ‘services’, and won’t take no for an answer.

Papillon – ” As for older men coming on to younger or any women for that matter, they are just deserving of a good slap” I think older men coming on to younger guys like myself deserve a slap too.

A lot of people think age and gender can get them everything, I’ve seen old guys leering at pretty young women on planes, and trying it on with them. Talking vividly to other men about how many women they’ve had, making the women sat in front very uncomfortable. There’s a time and a place to talk about it, in public isn’t one of them.

For lone travellers, there are many ways to avoid anything awkward or uncomfortable.
-Dressing modestly will deter most unwanted looks.
-Always stay visible in public places, that way if anything does happen, the cameras will hopefully pick it up.
– Staying near to reception is a good idea, in case an escape is needed for whatever reason. There are a few hotels I’ve been in where the cameras are only around the reception area, which is unacceptable, it leaves people vulnerable in the corridors.
– If you feel uncomfortable or threatened in any way, speak to the reception or manager, or even the security team.

[DavidGordon10]

My earlier post was partly tongue in cheek, folks!

I will be certain to compliment Papillion on her perfume if I ever sit next to her – not very likely, sadly, it is about 5 years since I have done ABZ and then it was from Bergen…

[canucklad]

A brilliant topic,

A few of my personal thoughts to add to the discussion.

Hi Poshgirl58

Practical ones first.
If lone female travellers want to feel more secure by isolating themselves then you might consider setting up the following ….

1) A list of preferred taxi companies that use female drivers only.
2) If flying business use carriers that such as AC/BA that have non- interacting seats.
3) In “Y” advise female employees to record their preference for an aisle seat, and suggest choosing close to the galley.
4) Another piece of advice, if staying in a hotel do not sit perched at the bar. Men see baqrs as a socialising area!
5) Importantly for me, is advising all employees about acceptable behaviour when representing the company. I’m going to suggest that most incidents occur between work colleagues.
6) Be alcohol savvy, especially when flying !!

As a man I feel incredibly confused and weary when mixing with women now a days. It seems that the more empowered women become, ironically the less influence they have with me as I shun their company… just to be on the safe side !

My point 5 above, is from personal experience (5 times), were I’ve diplomatically had to manoeuvre an exit strategy that left my female colleagues with their self-respect. Well apart from my colleague who chapped my hotel door with nothing more than the smallest bath towel wrapped around her ….ehmmmm asking for a lone of toothpaste!!

So men and women are clearly different creatures and yet what drives and motivates us are not too dissimilar. …. Especially if they’ve read a certain book!! : )

[valbtab]

Hi,

Not sure if any of the elements contained within my January Blog are of any help to you ? As UK business travel agents I did a Blog for Women Travelling Alone on Business ….. it might just be of use …..

http://www.btab.co.uk/News/Blog.aspx

valbtab
Business Travel Connections

[Poshgirl58]

Thanks to everyone for some interesting comments and suggestions. It is good to get the cabin crew and passenger, male and female perspective. I know it’s a contentious subject and I want to avoid the empowered stroppy female angle. I will take time to read every post and comment further at a later date.

Doing the hotels part was relatively easy as there’s plenty of information available but some are missing the point by thinking we are only interested in fluffy bathrobes and glossy magazines.

I anticipate male colleagues attending the presentation so will hopefully be able to give a balanced view of the subject but may invite a “friend from Mars” to assist me!

[Goldielox]

Poshgirl – Have you tried conducing a survey of your female staff to see what there few is on this topic? Also I would also suggest perhaps posting this topic on Flyertalk. Even though there have been some very good suggestions and advice, you will get a much wider audience and more open viewpoint than the egotistical male on this forum. Good Luck!

[canucklad]

” and more open viewpoint than the egotistical male on this forum. Good Luck!”

Tut Tut Goldielox …. a tad sexist ! lol

Oh and Papillion, your comments absolutely hit the mark.

[Papillion53]

Goldielox @ 14:40 – I am shaking my head after reading your last comment Re “egotistical male” on this forum.

Darling, in case it has escaped your notice, I am most definitely all woman and I’m not the only girl on here …. 1infrequent is another and I suspect Valbtab is too! Mind you my ego can sometimes know no bounds! 😉 🙂

Nmh1204@11:31 – absolutely agree … Sorry if I’ve been sexist! 🙂

Canucklad – you know I only ever write it as I see it! 😉 🙂

Poshfgirl58 – just a suggestion and you may have thought of this already, but why don’t you contact the PRs at the major airlines and ask them what, if any, policies they have for single female travellers? Do they have any specific training on dealing with awkward/harassment/”just being a damn nuisance to another” situations amongst passengers, or passengers hassling CC? Sometimes, I think, a common sense approach works wonders and like you say, the worst thing would be to come across as empowered stroppy females … 🙂

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