[Tom Otley]

I think you’re right Edski – the issue of direct access to the aisle if you are in a window seat (ie: not having to step over the person inside on the aisle) is a difficult one.

It’s possible to do with a 1-2-1 configuration, but obviously reduces the number of seats you can fit onto the plane (in most cases) which means the airline has to charge more – and then you start to wonder if passengers will pay for that extra premium, when they are already paying more for the flat bed.

As for expecting something truly revolutionary, most airlines are picking from the same few seats – Zodiac, for instance in the case of Air France, Cathay etc…) and the Diamond seat – Lufthansa, KLM etc…) so it’s really the little or large adaptations that are made that is the difference.

[Edski777]

Aisle access and seat pitch are always a compromise. I was quite surprised to read that KLM is reducing the number of seats on their 747-400s by so much. I guess that will result in probably the most space per passenger in any C class cabin of European carriers. I’m looking forward to the seatplan becoming available.

I am also interested to see who will react to this product offering and how. Any ideas on prospects?

[Tom Otley]

Well that is crystal ball-stuff. I was chatting with a regular KLM passenger on the short haul flight over yesterday. He was going on down to Tokyo, tolerated the seats, thought the service superb, but when asked why he was booking with KLM, it came down to price. That’s fine, but these fully flat bed seats will mean the cost of the fares has to go up, and so I wonder whether he will pay this or simply shop round for another carrier – after all, he has plenty of choices, and by the sounds of it has flown many of them.

I’ve asked for a copy of the seatplan, because I can’t find it in the KLM system. There is a picture here of the artist’s impression.

http://flic.kr/p/e4FwSY

[FormerlyDoS]

“So is it really that much of a step up when this “top criticism” remains?”

A very good point.

Which means that “but when asked why he was booking with KLM, it came down to price” is insightful.

If the product is not the latest generation and the reduction in seat numbers drives up the cost, Tom’s question “I wonder whether he will pay this or simply shop round for another carrier ” is pertinent.

[Vertrek]

Hi Tom and all,

First and foremost, thanks Tom for the report and videos, I enjoyed it.
I agree with your point regarding the seat. It is not about which seat they choose, but more of how do they play around with it and KLM did it well with the Diamond seat.

The Zodiac seat that AF will provide will give variety when booking and travelling with the two giants. In the future, some people will prefer AF, some will prefer KL, and through this differentiation both KLM an AF are able to offer the 2 latest business class seats available to the world.

Which seat to choose will then be on the hand of the passeners as they will be able to choose which metal they want to fly on in both KLM and AF (even AZ) website.

Regarding direct aisle access, considering that the seat can be turned into 207cm bed, in seating position, no one need to jumped over anyone’s legs, which makes it a “semi-direct” and in sleeping position, only those seating by th windows have to do a bit of a “jump” over. Even so, it won’t be a big hassel as I am sure that there will be quiet a huge gap between your seat and the one infront.

To answer Pat and Fdos,

I would say, yes! In term of design, the length of bed, the size of the screen, design of pillow and blanket, as well as the cabin ambiance and combination of colours. It has also offer a direct aisle access for most passengers and semi-direct aisle access for some window-seated passengers, and it is less densed

Fdos, I would assume that every airlines have what they called “cooperate clients” and I think most airlines will try to focus on them. If one person’s decision to fly an airline is based on price, then let them be, KLM will still have a strong clienteles based not only from NL but also France and Italy as well as the UK and Far East. Also, I suspect the price increase won’t be so huge that no one will want to fly them. After all, there are only 35 comfy seats to be filled. =)

[MarcusUK]

Hi All.

KLM have a very strong base these days, with many customers feeding in from Northern, southern, and now more Eastern Europe. They have a good solid reputation. Many more business AND leisure passengers are using KLM regionally from the UK avoiding these absurd levies, charges, and taxes, as well as fuel supplements not charged from EU gateways. Their benefit from a Government with no Aviation strategy. The Dutch are gaining business from this.

There are big Corporates such as Shell, who send their employees via KLM, their market will not shrink in long haul Business Class cabins. But there are also a lot of self paying passengers who choose KLM business cabins, increasingly a higher proportion on board.
On many flights i take, there are no seats left in Business Class with KLM, with Economy full also on Long haul routes.

They could improve the Premium Economy offer on board, with some simply touches as they have for the new Business cabin and with food services etc. There is still a need and market for them to differ between the two classes, room for improvement, if not equal innovation there.

The Biz cabin designs are great with much though and green credentials, that probably many will not appreciate. But the launch sounds messy and could have been done much much better. No publicity in NL’s, nothing in Schiphol airport, a mock up of what is to come would advertise itself greatly. Highly effective there.

They have made so many efforts in the last few years, in every aspect of flying. They have a great loyalty base, and this grows with more custom from the UK. I see many passengers taking London flights to connect long haul with KLM.

They already are one of the most popular long haul carriers for the UK, with the best airport of Schiphol, from your local airport and on. KLM and indeed Schiphol / Amsterdam, has its Aviation future growth secured, taking Business already from the UK.

KLM will just need to innovate and progress, which they manage quite easily. Their efforts are tangible with every aspect of taking any flight with them.
They will always be distinctive, as are The Dutch.

[CXDiamond]

I like the look of this, very easy on the eye and very KLM. Well done!

[BigDog.]

More of space class than business class competition from KLM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10000316/Win-a-trip-to-space-in-KLM-competition.html

… any aeronautic geeks out there who have an idea on how high a high altitude balloon will reach before bursting, please share 😉

[Binman62]

Business class config in nose of 747…… 14 seats. Very impressive

[KSHaggag]

KLM is one of the very rare carriers which conceived clearly that an outstanding business class is all about the feeling of space then space then space …I am indeed thrilled at the new cabin with 15 seats on the main deck and 20 on the upper one …impressive !!…many carriers nowadays jeopardize that valuable space in the name of privacy and keep on building and setting up so many separators and obstacles bringing along just isolation and cramped seating ..I sigh with relief that KLM did not follow suit ! Thanks KLM ,,

[epeek06]

KSHaggag I totally agree, I think KLM have done a great job in that aspect. Booked flights for the end of the year cannot wait to try it! also the 17inch IFE ^^

[KSHaggag]

Hi epeek06 !…yep..right you are !,….may i ask you what routes initially KLM has the intention to deploy the 747-400s on ,sporting the new product ?..I will have to go to various places and can indeed go out of my way to sample the product ..any clue ?..a product to fly for ,I expect it to be !
Cheers

[Henkel.Trocken]

Binman62 – 17/04/2013 20:29 GMT

Business class config in nose of 747…… 14 seats. Very impressive

Yes, fourteen seat in the nose of a 747 is just right for business class.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Trying to find the right thread for this. This is an update on where the product is if you can’t find online.

Network rollout (via Amsterdam)
Passengers are already enjoying the new
cabin on:

* All flights to Nairobi, Curacao and
Saint Maarten

* Selected flights to New York-JFK,
San Francisco, Shanghai, Mexico City,
Suriname, Tokyo and Delhi

Routes soon-to-be implemented:
* November 2013 Chengdu
* December 2013 Toronto
* January 2014 Houston
* February 2014 Hong Kong, Seoul
* March 2014 Beijing, Los Angeles
* April 2014 Chicago, Bangkok

Hope that helps

[KSHaggag]

Thanks a million TimFitzGerald TC ….this is just brilliant …..we are spoilt for choice ,Gentlemen !!!! San Francisco Toronto and Los Angeles as well as Hong Kong are quite a relief for me …..

Enjoy The product ,KLM Lovers !

[Author]

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