[Anonymous]

[DutchinSwitzerland]

It was announced in November last year that KLM would be soon unveiling a new full-flat business class seat. Until now I haven’t seen anything. In the news it also said that the first 747-4 would be equipped by June but I would guess that they would be launching the seat well in advance like all the other airlines do. Due to fly with them to HKG in April so too soon anyway….

[Vertrek]

Hi,

No, no news yet… We can only wait, but it should be revealed soon. However, AF has announced to revamp their business class to CX style. I would imagine KL having a similar one.

Vertrek

[Edski777]

Rumor has it that it will all be revealed on March 19, 2013 and that the introduction will be on their 747 product first.
Apparently the new seats are designed by Hella Jongerius, a Dutch designer.
The seat will be available on selected flights starting May 2013.

[Vertrek]

Hi Edski!

Thanks for the info!! Looking forward to the news, less than 1 more month to go! 🙂

Do you have more info about it? Such as the design? or the configuration?

[Edski777]

Sorry, they keep awfully quiet about it. I asked around with friends at KL, but nobody has any info or pictures.
As soon as I can lay a paw one one….

This is the info on the KL website (in English)

http://nieuws.klm.com/klm-vernieuwt-het-interieur-van-de-world-business-class-en/

[Dutchbird]

I heard via a good source who mentioned there is a mock up in Amsterdam, it’s similar to the delta layout or Swiss flatbed seats.
More info I did not get.

[Edski777]

Dutchbird: any idea where it is located?

[Dutchbird]

Klm would never go for a top end product. They are extremely penny wise pound foolish and really do not care much about premium passengers, own staff is more important.
So please expect nothing exciting in terms of space,quality or upgraded on board service.

[Dutchbird]

Edski no I do not. I am not sure if this person actually saw the mock up or a picture or an artist illustration.

[MReedGB]

..the most important change, at least for me, that the seat will finally be fully flat in bed mode…no more sliding ! Just hope KLM will follow the choice of AF in their new C class seat..

[Edski777]

Dutchbird,

I’m not so sure about KLM being penny wise, pound foolish. The airline industry has become a cut throat business with very small margins.
In terms of their new business class seat they opted for a new design by an acclaimed designer. That must be more expensive than buying off the shelf.

With regards to your comment about caring more about their staff I must agree with you that they seem to care a bit more than other airlines. As a regular customer of various airlines I have to admit that it pays off. Compare it to the big American airlines with their often disgruntled and sometimes openly hostile staff. And there are others that suffer from the same problems. You can read all about it on various forums and both from customers and, sometimes, staff.

I do expect further improvements on KLM, both on the ground and in the air. They are late, compared to other airlines, but in the last couple of years they are catching up.

In my mind there is a general decline in service amongst most European and North American airlines. Most major airlines lose money and marketshare to relative newcomers.KLM has always been fighting this trend with, more or less succesful, innovations,

Within the AF/KLM group they are the relatively healthy partner, where AF is the real bleeder.
Let’s give KLM the benefit of the doubt and wait and see. It’s almost March 19.

.

[Vertrek]

Thanks Edski,

I have not notice regarding the issue of caring more about their staff.
But I am always happy whenever I flew them, great and friendly service.
KL staffs (at least in the air) seem to be always happy to help and to assist, they are down to earth without any pretence and I love that.

Having said that, their long haul hard product do actually let them down a bit, hopefully the coming change on the 19/03 will bring them up.

I agree with Edski that there are general decline among airlines in EU and US and it is inevitable. As discuss in another forum, I believe that EU short-haul will all be low cost, it is just a matter of time.

An analysis from CAPA regarding AF-KLM
http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/air-france-klm-why-it-must-transform-as-medium-haul-and-cargo-operations-hurt-the-bottom-line-98885

In the article CAPA stated that AF-KLM long-haul networks are their strongest point, this enhancement in product offering will sure further strengthen their position in the market.
With that in mind, I wonder if KLM will ever offer Premium Economy on their long-haul fleet?

[DutchinSwitzerland]

Thanks for the input everyone, it’s indeed nearly March 19 so will be looking forward to that date. Personally I think the Delta/Swiss offering would be great although I’ve read very positive stories about the CX offering, the fact that AF has opted for that one might be pushing in that direction (greater numbers gives greater discounts right) and for what I understand the CX seat offers the opportunity of customozing so it would make sense that they hired Jongerius……

[Dutchbird]

Edski, I wonder why your view is so different then mine, although in all fairness I will agree with you that compared to US airlines they do better. Also I understand the business is not easy BUT if you ask for a premium price then please deliver. Seat, ok lets give it the benefit of doubt and wait. But never to be able to deliver your suitcase out first among many other issues I find remarkable.

I usually dont want to mention but I am PE for live since many years and I have done a major part of traveling with them and all my long haul 98% in business for more then 20 years.

My complains have remained the same and the seat was my number one since years.

I wrote them a final complain, to the special dept called Personal Assistance to which I have access. Never a reply, except when I called “well we are not sure what to do with it….”

That day I decided to more or less totally stop using them and since 4/5 years maybe one long haul flight a year.

Totally switched to CX for Asia and Australia which I my main part, both business and first (which they dropped from AMS which of course sucks.) CX product is so superior, even the old Hbone layout that I will not even think of going back to KLM when the seat becomes good.

An airlines which want to get premium price, but fails to deliver such service except for own staff and then on top fails to notice a good passenger leaving them is a disgrace and slap in the face for the customer.

But KLM is so self focussed, unionized, all the best to them, they will find out it not just about a seat.

But, rest assured, they will never get it and they believe all airlines have the same issues which is true to a certain extend….but still a big difference.

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