[Potakas]

Ekond, a little bit off topic.

I am not very happy hear you speaking like this for my country but I suppose you had some bad experiences there, sorry to hear that.

The problem with LCY is that when the runway closed many aircrafts have been diverted to other airports.

[MartynSinclair]

Sorry to hear your predicament Binman. However nice the Galleries lounge is, its not the place to be on a Friday evening. I hope you get to where ever you need to get safely. The good news is that armed with all the recourses you have there, mobile, plenty of TV’s and computers you can keep up to date.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

Seasons Greetings.

[Binman62]

Boarding and just 4hrs and 10 mins late…. I must have drunk more than I paid for the ticket….Hic Merry Christmas

[MartynSinclair]

you are not wearing a red coat by chance?

Enjoy….

[StephenLondon]

I have heard that the BA staff that de-ice the aircraft are also the same people that operate the pushback tugs. Thus if some are buy de-icing, there are insufficient bods remaining to push back aircraft ready to depart. Seems a hole in contingency planning, if you ask me.
BBC reporting that new snow equipment for LGW is stuck on the Continent due to the poor weather. How ironic. Easyjet has already cancelled all AM departures from LGW tomorrow, in anticipation of the arrival of snow.
Good luck getting where you need to go!

[VintageKrug]

There has been significant disruption in AMS, FRA and even GVA this afternoon; BA’s Europe-wide schedule is particularly vulnerable to disruption in this sort of situation, with aircraft out of position.

In addition, there are apparently too many planes which have landed at LHR and there aren’t enough spaces to accommodate them (more planes are landing than taking off), causing further disruption.

Add to this the woefully inadequate de-icing provision (it’s never clear to me whether this is a BA or BAA responsibility – surely all the smaller airlines must rely on others for their equipment), and an airport at capacity, and this is par for the course.

However, the champagne continues to flow, and I’m settling in nicely.

[continentalclub]

As one who has first-hand experience of what happens when things go catastrophically wrong at Heathrow, I’m not overly inclined to be charitable until I see genuine evidence that lessons have been learnt from the past.

However, in the interests of fairness, I’d point out that, for example, the Schiphol website is mostly returning the following error:

Access to this website is impeded due to huge visitor numbers as a result of the current bad weather conditions.

We apologize for the inconvenience

– and that their departure boards look very much grimmer than Heathrow’s – T5 or all-terminal. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that Schiphol is in meltdown with almost every single flight after 12:00CET cancelled.

There are going to be some very tired passengers refugeed all over Europe this weekend – let’s just hope that everyone makes it home in time for Christmas.

Four hours in a fully-catered lounge doesn’t seem too traumatic, by comparison.

Speaking of comparisons, my own personal (horrendous) experience of irrops at T5, and my subsequent research does also highlight some of the real differences between BA and the likes of BD and VS.

In the latter case, there are a tiny number of interlined connecting passengers on any given flight, and all Virgin flights are longhaul. If they have a no-show then, for the most part, they’ll simply take off without them, unaware of the passenger’s whereabouts and without obligation to them. If and when the passenger finally does arrive, they’ll need to be reticketed landside and the departure lounge stays reasonably quiet.

Likewise, when a longhaul Virgin flight lands, most of its passengers will, as far as VS are concerned, be terminating. They’ll collect their bags and exit landside to make any onward connection. Result – not Virgin’s problem, and the airside departure lounge remains untroubled.

With BA, as with KL at AMS, LH at FRA, AF at CDG etc, up to 80% of a shorthaul passenger load could be interline connecting, and a significant percentage of longhaul inbounds will be too. They’ll be looked after in transit, airside. From a vantage point like BA Galleries at T5, or even the Security balcony, the impression of a seething mass is heightened. Airlines like BA, KL, LH and AF will do everything that they can to hold a longhaul departure so that shorthaul connections can make the flight – especially if flying conditions suggest that time can be made up in the air.

So, some of the delays are managed – not simply a meltdown scenario – as frustrating as they may be to passengers who have orginated at the hub rather than having connected into it.

As BD’s network and frequencies have been culled, so too has the number of interlined connecting passengers that it carries. Once again, if you no-show for your BD flight and they have no idea about your connecting itinerary, you’re going to find yourself landside at T1 with only insurance to help.

The other thing that works in bmi’s favour during times of irrops, but fundamentally works against them when the sun shines, is their aircraft utilisation – which is extremely low compared to other airlines, including their parent. Indeed, it is not uncommon to see BD aircraft sitting on remote stands downroute all day, waiting for the evening peak flight. It’s presumably one of the reasons for the carrier’s continued financial weakness, but it does mean that they can be pressed into service on the few days a year when the snow falls. The schedule still goes to pot, but they do avoid outright cancellations rather better than the asset-sweating competition.

That’s not much consolation to the many former BD passengers who’ve lost BD route service completely over the years, irrespective of inclemencies. Indeed, if you live in the North East of England and wish to fly to London Heathrow, not only is BA the most reliable option, it’s now the only option since BD conspired to strangle their MME route and switch the slots used to LH Italia…..

Worse still, if you’re at Durham Tees Valley Airport hoping to depart to a longhaul destination now, and since you can no longer fly to LHR, you’ll be completely stuck if you’ve opted for KLM, who have cancelled 100% of flights and, without a boat, you have no way of getting to Amsterdam.

If you opted for BA from Newcastle instead, and yours is one of the 50% flights cancelled today, and (so far) one of the 17% tomorrow, then you could still travel to London by train and potentially make your onward connection.

As ever, there are sometimes things that we can individually do to minimise our exposure to disruption, or to mitigate its impact.

However, a lack of de-icing resource at Heathrow T5, if it continues to be the case, is quite unacceptable. It was bad enough in January 2010 but, with ten months to have addressed the issue, there can simply be no excuses now.

[FlyingChinaman]

So sorry to hear all you poor souls hanging around LHR because of the bad weather and delayed flights.

To me the infra-structure at LHR has always been stretched to the limit even during a normal operational period and a meltdown is expected during a snowy period . A relative new T5 can only provide comfort to the preveleged fews in the BA lounges but would have no effect on flight movements.

Since BA is unable to change the situation. May be they should have a Plan B of hiring temporary Thai masseurs (M & F) during the bad weather period and offer in-lounge massages (body or foot) to pacify their frustrated premium passengers!

Wishing you all getting home rapidly and safely!

[MarcusUK]

Radio 4 just announced, (as confirmed on the BA website)
“All BA flights have been from LHR cancelled until 17hrs today”.

The BAA spokesman stated on radio 4 ( 8.15am), that:

“This is an issue with BA only, all other airlines are running flights normally. As far as the airport is concerned, we have been preparing the airport all night, all runs without problems, we have a green light at this moment in time”

I flew in KLM / CityJet from schipol on Weds eve to LCY, and the snow had hit badly then with concentrated downfall, and the canals around the city had frozen over then. The airport was extremely well organised anyhow, with 4 De-icing stations of 2 trucks at each station, for 4 planes prior to take off to be moved through.
But clearly, Netherlands and East from there, the weather has hit much earlier and several days before.

There always appears to be cancellations by BA when any problems occur, when other airlines continue to run their aircraft to the same destinations with out needing to cancel flights.
This has been the pattern for the last 5 years, with all the major events affecting travel, or the weather. Other Airlines continue their services. Clearly, a greater capability in the operational and Management decisions with other Airlines!,
A great boost in business for them, with an instant marketing result for customers to compare airlines on the same routes.

[JordanD]

What BA’s twitter feed announced was cancellation of all flights between 1000 and 1700GMT from LHR, similar from LGW.

Considering that the on duty BBC Weather forecaster (Thomas Schafernaker) said at 0800 on his twitter feed that “Snowfront to reach BBC in W London in 1 to 2 hrs”, it looks like BA may well have chosen well if the snow fall is as heavy to be predicted – 10 to 15cm of snow in the west London/home counties area.

It seems everyone wants to use every opportunity to shaft BA on this board. I wonder if a French equivalent does that same to AF at CDG?

[MarcusUK]

When i asked a Dutch KLM Manager at Schipol if flights wee having problems on weds the answer was clear:
“We all agreed at our daily briefing today, that we have an extra responsibility to ensure flights run, even if they are delayed. It is Christmas, and holidays, and whole families depend on us, we want to get people to be able to celebrate wherever they are heading. Weather happens every year, we anticipate it.”

The Dutch have a great realisation that KLM always make every preparation and step, and that if are not able to run a flight, every measure will have been taken to try to, that any Airline could have taken. Schipol as we know, is well planned and has 5 runways and extensive snow / ice preparedness in winter. Then again, so so most European major airports. I have flown out to Far East from Zurich when thee was 10cm of snow an hr falling, piled high away from the runway. The runways taxiways, were being cleared every 10 minutes, and all aircraft de-iced at the start of the runways.

So, certainly there is not the same “shafting” of KLM in NL’s as they have an excellent reputation, as do Schipol!

Perhaps BA should decide to take the same responsibility and run and get out flights, as long as they can, when the airport is operating without difficulty. Do their best, not give in so early, and devastate many families and all travellers ability to be where they need to be at Christmas. Again they make dramas out of very little, when every other carrier just gets on with it. The airport is running well, the skies are not dangerous at this time, to be unable to fly.

Sympathy to all those BA travellers who will be delayed or maybe not get any further to their Christmas destination. It is BA that Shaft their customers at Christmas!

[VintageKrug]

The BAA spokesperson also stated “we should expect more snow this morning and this afternoon”… but that part was conveniently left out of your selective quote.

MarkRoberts9, see a sample from yesterday’s Schipol departure board:

KQ 1153 Gothenburg 08:05 Cancelled
DL 9648 Manchester 08:05 Cancelled D05
KL 1073 Manchester 08:05 Cancelled D05
CZ 7881 Manchester 08:05 Cancelled D05
KQ 1073 Manchester 08:05 Cancelled D05
DL 9660 Gothenburg 08:05 Cancelled
KL 1153 Gothenburg 08:05 Cancelled
KL 1277 Edinburgh 08:05 Cancelled
CZ 7830 Edinburgh 08:05 Cancelled
DL 9632 Edinburgh 08:05 Cancelled
MH 9213 Gothenburg 08:05 Cancelled
KL 1197 Stavanger 08:10 Cancelled
AZ 3873 Stavanger 08:10 Cancelled
MH 9319 Stavanger 08:10 Cancelled
DL 9593 Stavanger 08:10 Cancelled
LO 0270 Warsaw 08:20 Departed 09:53 1 06 B15
EZS 1354 Geneva 08:25 Departed 09:35 3 31 D66
LH 3335 Hamburg 08:35 Departed 08:40 1 08 B01
VG 0217 London City 08:40 Departed 09:37 2 11,13,14 D27
KL 2755 London City 08:40 Departed 09:37 2 11,13,14 D27
KL 1765 Frankfurt 08:45 Cancelled
KQ 1765 Frankfurt 08:45 Cancelled
DL 9556 Frankfurt 08:45 Cancelled
CZ 7643 Frankfurt 08:45 Cancelled
VN 3150 Frankfurt 08:45 Cancelled
OR 0335 Varadero 08:50 Delayed 14:00 3 27 E02
KL 1125 Copenhagen 08:50 Cancelled
KL 1821 Berlin 08:50 Cancelled
KQ 1821 Berlin 08:50 Cancelled
DL 9856 Detroit 08:50 Boarding 09:02 2 11,13,14 E17
MH 9253 Copenhagen 08:50 Cancelled
DL 9535 Copenhagen 08:50 Cancelled
CZ 7657 Berlin 08:50 Cancelled
OR 0335 Cancun 08:50 Delayed 14:00 3 27 E02
CZ 7822 Copenhagen 08:50 Cancelled
KQ 1125 Copenhagen 08:50 Cancelled
DL 9570 Berlin 08:50 Cancelled
EZY 4564 Berlin 08:55 Departed 09:15 3 31 D62
CAI 0020 Antalya 09:00 Departed 09:55 3 32 D16
DL 9857 Atlanta 09:05 Gate closing 10:25 2 11,13,14 E19
EZY 8872 London Gatwick 09:05 Cancelled H
EZY 2197 Barcelona 09:05 Boarding 10:13 3 31 M01
QS 1003 Prague 09:15 Departed 09:44 3 21 B17
DL 9622 Istanbul 09:20 Departed 09:59 2 11,13,14 D05
KL 1613 Istanbul 09:20 Departed 09:59 2 11,13,14 D05
DL 9647 Liverpool 09:20 Cancelled
KL 1035 Liverpool 09:20 Cancelled
AF 8308 Liverpool 09:20 Cancelled
BA 8112 London Gatwick 09:20 Delayed 10:20 3 21 D08
DL 9858 Seattle 09:20 Delayed 11:15 2 11,13,14 E08
AZ 3990 Durham Teesvall 09:25 Cancelled
KQ 1533 Durham Teesvall 09:25 Cancelled
KL 1575 Athens 09:25 Departed 09:50 2 11,13,14 C07
CZ 7804 Athens 09:25 Departed 09:50 2 11,13,14 C07
DL 9573 Athens 09:25 Departed 09:50 2 11,13,14 C07
DL 9376 Venice 09:25 Departed 10:16 2 11,13,14 B02
KL 1653 Venice 09:25 Departed 10:16 2 11,13,14 B02
KL 1793 Munich 09:25 Cancelled
DL 9564 Munich 09:25 Cancelled
DL 9567 Stuttgart 09:25 Cancelled
CZ 7699 Stuttgart 09:25 Cancelled
KL 1869 Stuttgart 09:25 Cancelled
OK 0617 Prague 09:25 Delayed 11:15 2 11,13,14 C09
KE 7602 Prague 09:25 Delayed 11:15 2 11,13,14 C09
DL 8731 Prague 09:25 Delayed 11:15 2 11,13,14 C09
KL 1533 Durham Teesvall 09:25 Cancelled

I think we will see the decision by BA to cancel this afternoon’s flying programme to have been proleptic, given the heavy settling snow being seen now, and their decision which may have seemed poorly informed by those who don’t know anything about running an airline, will avoid many people being stranded at the airport or en route, and crew being stranded away from home.

klm has cancelled a considerable number of flights today:

http://www.klm.com/travel/gb_en/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/cancelled_flights.htm

[TominScotland]

Just made it back after my Friday 10.15 flight AMS – GLA was cancelled…..

I arrived in AMS at 08.15 yesterday from Tallin with its 3 foot of snow and the GLA flight was showing delayed but almost immediately was cancelled. KLM re-booked me on a BHX flight with connection to GLA. We boarded that and were being de-iced in a blizzard when the airport was closed.

Little hope of an alternative flight yesterday and I heard that KLM were paying for passengers to take the train so headed down to the station – all EuroStar seats booked Friday and unlikely to be any on Saturday. But the girl suggested the boat and there is one from IJmuiden to Newcastle, leaving nightly at 5.30 (ContinentalClub – this is your Tees Valley answer, by the way). Booked a berth via the phone – I was told this was the last place available!!

Headed into Amsterdam by train (many were being cancelled) and went to take the DFDS bus to IJmuiden – 25km took us 4 hours!! as the Dutch do not grit roads at all and drivers have not a clue how to cope – gridlock!

The ship was great – good food, clean etc. Arrived North Shields after a great sleep and took the train up here as the snow arrived. Apparently the last flight to Glasgow last night did make it from AMS but could not know that so just glad to be back home. So the only challenge now is my luggage….

[Binman62]

Fully appreüciat at LHR today
I am in Germany after an eight hour plus delay on Fri. I will post a comment on how BA held us on an aircraft for almost 4 hours on friday and provided nothing. They are simply unable to plan, communicate or organize, all operational experience has been lost in the last 2 years. My interaction with BA staff yesterday was superb but all despaired at management incompetence and operational inexperience

[ekond111]

If you check the Arrivals/Departures LHR website – it appears all airlines appear to be in disarray at the moment. My Brother should have landed last night from Toronto on AC – flight was diverted to Dublin –
Last week I was in Central Asia – minus 18 – 4 ft snow….the plane left 40 miunutes late – bu then it was the only aircraft at the airport.
Today I’m in Abu Dhabi – BA have cancelled their flight – but have advised me to turn up to the Airport and alternative flight arrangements have been made – but then I was booked in First – I hope all passengers impacted by the weather are as fortunate.

[Author]

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