[seanyjmuclhr]

Was due to fly to Frankfurt yesterday with DLH and while BA was in meltdown, DLH still had us checked in and boarded ready for departure…. just when the snow descended from the heavens….

We were on LH903, at gate 5 of T1 from 10am right through to 7pm. Every hour, on the hour, the captain gave us full updates, and while it was severly annoying to de-plane after 9 hours sitting on board, the LH crew was nothing if not stellar. They did multiple drinks services, got all the food out, even managed to get Prêt à Manger to come down and give everyone more sandwiches.

While I need to get away, I am thankful that we were kept warm, safe and fed, and although I had to come back home last night, in times like this you have to reconcile yourself with the fact that you still have your health. Complaining just seems futile, especially when no-one really wants to listen or do anything to help. I just feel sorry for all those stranded travellers who had to bed down in the terminal last night, at least I could grab a cab back home.

However, what IS infuriating is the whole re-booking process. All of the phone lines seem to be saturated, or just don’t work. And nothing can be done online, it seems. And just thinking about heading back to the airport to stand in line for hours makes me feel ill.

The questions that have to be answered are:
– why do the airlines tolerate the shoddy operating procedures by BAA?
– having lived in snowy climates myself for years, major airports do not shut down the way LHR does, so why does LHR do this?
– for all the fees that BAA charges airlines, and us passengers, why is not more money invested in technology and apparatus that deals with ice and snow?

I guess we will just have to see it out.

Stay warm everyone.

[Senator]

Fellow travellers,

Quite a predicament we are in isn’t it? Snow is falling at a rapid pace in Stockholm, wind is gusting. I am booked ARN-ZRH-LHR with a six hour stopover for business in ZRH tomorrow, Monday the 20th. I have meetings in Oxford 08:30 – 15:00 on Tuesday, before I am scheduled for LHR-FRA-BGO on DLH to head to my parents place for Christmas. Given the state of LHR, I wonder if I am better off cancelling and conduct business off site?

[MartynSinclair]

Unfortunately, I have to agree with the subject line of this post. On the outside (or rather inside of T5) all looks calm and serene but but when the BA managers, who seem to get younger and younger are not able or willing to make decisions, there is little hope.

Remember this year BA has suffered from volcanic clouds and strikes but the airline still managed, to a degree to keep a sense of a stiff upper lip. This weather situation has totally knocked BA for 6 to the extent that nobody appears to have any sense of control, not of the weather, but of the passengers and the serious consequences that this is having to the lives of thousands of passengers.

[StephenLondon]

I’d have to disagree with your post, MartynSinclair. BA have good contingency planning, they are thwarted by a business more focused on operating shopping malls than an airport – the BAA. The pictures showing two men with snow shovels trying to dig out a 777 is just a joke. My relations in Scandinavia said this made their “joke of the night” piece at the end of the national news. BAA have not put tuppence towards their snow removal budget, let alone any plans. They prefer to hide under their duvets, hoping the snow will melt and go away in a few days. The amount of money lost during two days of disruption surely exceeds what they’d need to spend to get the airport open again, and quickly. Friends stuck in Terminal 1 say that all BAA staff (even security) have disappeared, and they’ve been left to fend for themselves. Shocking. There are elderly and disabled people there who are really struggling. Terminal 5, at least, has been an oasis of calm since BA took a good decision to cancel most of their flying programme. The entire weekend has been a national disgrace – and it is BAA’s fault for not being pro-active enough to ensure a robust operation can be maintained when five inches of snow falls.
Oh, and as for the BAA’s PR man (Andrew somebody) – he needs to find alternative employment…shockingly poor and woefully inept.

[MartynSinclair]

Stephen – my comments about “is Heathrow a shopping mall or an airport” are well known on the forum. The Heathrow complex is the largest floor space retail in Europe and the costliest in terms of a shopping mall. Here lies the both the conflict and the problem – we agree 100%.

The contingency plans Stephen are not there. I was in T5 last night and have sharthaul flights today that I must take in order to fly my ticket in sequence. I have offered BA my seats, should these flights go, to be transfered to more needy passengers who are stuck away from home and possibly away from their families – I DO NOT HAVE TO TAKE THESE FLIGHTS, MY MEETINGS HAVE CANCELLED – except BA are insisitng that unless I take these flights, i will not be able to fly the longhaul I need later i the week, without paying an extra £3000.

So, even when a passengers offers to forgo a seat, BA are clueless,

I am a gold card holder and remain a fan of the airline, just wish the managers were not still in their nappies and marching around as if living in cloud cuckoo land.

[FlyingChinaman]

StevenLondon: A contingency plan ON PAPER is no plan! I had been watching from sunny Hawaii via the internet all the poor souls stranded in the LHR terminals unable to go anywhere and no proper place to sleep on!

MartynSinclair: BA certainly needs a staunch support like you to survive and perhaps prosper!

Can I say Happy holidays to all????????

[VintageKrug]

I really don’t understand this “culture of blame” which persists everywhere.

In years gone by, people would have been considerably more resourceful, and wouldn’t have sat about moaning and complaining. Sometimes there simply are events beyond anyone’s control which necessitate a change of strategy.

Safety should always come first, and moving a loaded 747 around in close proximity to other aircraft – even on the ground – is risky at the best of times, and even more so in the snow.

My own travel plans we interfered with on Friday, but I got home in the end (thanks to BA!) and BA took the decision (criticised by some on here!) to cancel flying on Saturday which ensured many people were at least able to stay home/downroute without getting trapped in transit.

It’s not a perfect situation. It’s minus 10 where I am now – I don’t recall seeing temperatures so low for more than a decade.

So let’s not pretend these are typical circumstances for which the simple addition of some different managers would allow immediate resolution of the matter. It would not.

I have seen very effective management, using innovative and newly developed approaches, by younger people (and we are not talking about children here!). Age (beyond a certain level of experience) has little to do with ability to manage.

You criticise BA.com,. but it’s among the best of airline websites. It won more awards only a few months ago:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/whats-new/public/en_gb?refevent=lfn_whatsnew

and copes well under pressure (as it demonstrated during the summer Volcano and earlier strike action). However, when key people cannot even get into work to update data etc. needed to make those key decisions, we should all have a modicum of patience and not throw our toys; with a changing situation it is difficult to plan which flights will run and which not, even a week ahead of today due to both people and planes being out of position.

BA (against the prevailing mood!) planned to cancel its flying programme, and has accommodated many thousands of displaced people at its own expense (though really travel insurance should be used in the first instance).

Sure, some things could have been done better, I’m certain, but it is not just BA which is suffering, and you simply cannot slate the whole operation as appalling without balancing that assessment with some of the good decisions – such as the cancellation of the flying programme – which have minimised the more unpleasant aspects of disruption. Most every other airline cancelled flights from LHR this weekend, but of course the media focusses on BA is it operates proportionately more flight from LHR.

BAA has indeed failed to plan properly – and I suspect this is indeed more than simply poor planning, but systemic underinvestment. Having said that, the runways are clear, it is the stand de-icing which is causing the difficulties. I don’t think they have an effective plan for that, and Willie Walsh was right to tear a strip off BAA’s CEO on Friday when the idiotic Andrew “Charlie” Teacher suggested on Today that it was the responsibility of the airline to de-ice planes; it just isn’t as simple as that.

BAA appears to have kept people virtual prisoners inside T3, refusing them access to airside when it was clear there were no flights running, and that sort of poor communication and planning is unforgiveable.

In BAA’s defence, the temperatures are exceptional for LHR, five inches of snow fell in an hour on Saturday, which is now icing up stands, the airport is totally at capacity, and simply doesn’t have the land footprint to move aircraft around easily. If you put such circumstances in Frankfurt or Amsterdam (both of which have suffered similar disruption despite not having these issues) then it would not have been a dissimilar situation.

BA expects to operate the “vast majority” of flights from London City and London Gatwick, which does suggest that these airports (both owned by the same consortium) were either better prepared, or more fortunate in terms of the amount of snow which fell. Both benefit from not having the capacity issues to the extent that LHR does.

[FlyingChinaman]

VK: There is no question that you are the most staunch supporter for BA BUT you do have a lot of common sense and I accepted what you have just written.

Are you a professor of some short as your style of writting suggested that to me.

At least BA managed to get you home so that your could go to the refurbished Savoy last night. Did they serve you VK champagne?

[VintageKrug]

Actually, we drank Martinis instead, which seemed more appropriate to the surroundings!

[FlyingChinaman]

Shaken, not stirred I guess!

[Senator]

Whilst we are slightly amused of the mayhem caused by such small (in our Scandinavian paradigm) levels of cold and snow, I agree with VK that the “blame game” is a rather unnecessary game to play.

Personally, I deemed my Switzerland and UK trip this morning not to be critical enough to spoil the holidays so I stayed in Stockholm and will travel to Bergen on SAS tomorrow.

I have experienced the mayhem of snow storms in Denver, Chicago, Newark and been stranded at each airport several times. These are locations with large, annual snowfall who still can’t deal with the blizzards. I suspect the weather in December has been rather unusual for many airports; FRA, CDG, LHR to mention a few.

A deep breath, calm demeanor, polite, and patience is what is required for travel in the winter season. I for one, try to pack these in my carry-on during the winter. Safe travel, hope everyone gets to their destinations in time for the holidays. I am off to New York, Miami and the Caribbean on holidays on 27 Dec ? There, I hope the weather is more passable

[travelworld]

I agree wholeheatedly. The media isn’t helping at all, presenting the “shock, horror” scenes at LHR as some form of national tragedy. Given some of the other disasters that have been suffered worldwide in 2010, having to spend a night on a terminal floor isn’t one of them. Neither is missing out on a day or two’s holiday… Everyone will get there in the end.

[StephenLondon]

As Philip Hammond said this morning on BBC Breakfast, let’s not play the blame game (save that for the future) – priority should be focused on getting things back to normal.

Yet the BAA are happy to blame low temps, ice and snow (which fell nearly 48 hours ago) for their woes, not admit that their lack of planning or preparation for inclement weather is the reason their primary business (getting planes and passengers in and out of Heathrow) turning into a busted flush! I’m sure the retail shelves are choc-a-bloc of goodies in all terminals!

As for British Airways, given the masses of people who are hoping to fly, and MartynSinclair offering up his seat, well that is a great gesture, but BA would be hard-pressed to handle this request at the best of times, let alone on days where it can take two hours to reach them by telephone. Ticketing is such a complex issue (I used to be an agent moons ago), it isn’t as simple as cancelling out a couple of segments…systems are designed to operate that way for a reason – revenue protection.

Perhaps the lovely Andrew “Charlie” Teacher and his fellow BAA staff are with VK at the Savoy enjoying a martini or two, discussing how they can get LHR back on track. Or perhaps they’re in Hawaii with FlyingChinaman (lucky you have sun – it is raining on Oahu)…meanwhile, thousands are stranded, at risk of losing holidays, weddings, attending funerals and let’s not forget Christmas.

[FlyingChinaman]

There are occasionally brief sunny periods even with the rains here! At least it is still warm at 20 to 24C!

No likelihood of VK and Co. (BA) will showing up here anytime soon as NOBODY is going anywhere right now and this is what the thread is all about!

[Binman62]

As I wait patiently with wife and 2 kids for my flight home I am struck my the sage comments of those unaffected by this mess 4 days before Christmas and who are sitting comfortably at home.
For me it is not about the snow but about the lack of information. My flights did and are likely to operate but those that have been cancelled have been done so with in hours of departure making it near on impossible for thos eof us with some resourcfullness to plan a way out of it. On Friday I along with my wife and kids were held on board a plane for 4 hours having waited 5 hours to board. We were told in no uncertain circumatnces that if we got off BA would not help in any way and we would not get our bags back. Our insurnce would not have helped as we had chosen to get off. The EU rules may be one thing but BA behaviour on Friday was scandelous and the problems of this weekend almost certainly as a result of their inability to plan or communicate despite the forecast being clear.
Once home I will make post a detailed and truthful account of what went on this weekend but as I sit here surrounded by feet of snow I note that it is only BA who are disrupted and only LHR with a fraction of the snow they have here who are all but shut.
It is a news items across the globe on Sky BBC CNN German news and Fox. It is by any measure a national embarrassment and completely unacceptable.
Missing a few days of you holiday may be one thing but being far from home at this time of year and being unable to put a plan together because of a lack of information is something else altogether.

[Author]

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