[capetonianm]

Bucksnet : As you have thrown down a statement about a ‘plan’ I think you should expand upon that, even at the risk of being shot down, as I have been for expressing my opinion that the UK is sooner or later destined to join Schengen.

[Bullfrog]

@Capetonianm

+1

@Bucksnet

You have created a conspiracy theory by suggesting a plan, without any justification. Provide some credibility.

[LuganoPirate]

Every journey I’ve made from Shengen to Non-Shengen and vv my passport has been checked and scanned. Sometimes I get the feeling it’s more to control if you have any traffic fines outstanding but still…

When flying from S. Africa to Switzerland, the passport is subject to a final scan before boarding. It is then transmitted to Switzerland so even if someone has “lost” their passport en-route they can be identified on arrival.

To reinforce this there are usually 2 officers checking everyone’s identity document on leaving the plane at Zurich. The reason is simple. If they’ve lost their passport, or somehow evaded controls, they will be held and put back on the next departing plane before they can officially ask for asylum. No arguments.

I’m also wondering why, like the US that has controls at Shannon, Dublin and elsewhere, and Britain does at Calais, why immigration officers cannot be stationed at other countries airports, subject no doubt to reciprocity, at the most popular points of origin. I’m sure this would save a fortune in the long run and probably be welcomed by the vast majority of passengers who could then just breeze into the UK.

[Bucksnet]

There is some justification, as posters have mentioned other countries manage their borders efficiently and without issue.

[canucklad]

It does seem odd how our borders are managed……

Flying into EDI from Alicante at lunchtime and you will go through the process…..

Fly in from Tallin at 22.00 and you just walk straight through,

Then you have the whole Irish thing going on…..inconsistency is what I really don’t get….

Morning Martyn…..Even if I was given a great deal to fly from the UK via a US hub to YVR there is absolutely no danger I would take it !…Just far to much hassle …..

There needs to be balance…why is it such a breeze at HKG,even during the worst day’s of SAR’s ?

[MartynSinclair]

LP – one of the (many) issues in allowing US Border controls to have a base in the UK was their uniform. Guns are part of their standard kit and I don’t believe there is any way the UK authorities would allow American border control to carry guns on UK soil.

[BigDog.]

Governmental Incompetence Is Mind Blowing.
As there is a debate about clawing back banker bonuses when subsequent losses occur, surely the same should apply to govt. mandarins.

…”Home Office ordered to pay £224m to e-Borders firm Related Stories”…
Government in e-borders lawsuit.
Anger at secret e-borders legal bill…

The Home Office has been told to pay £224m to a major US corporation it sacked for failing to deliver a controversial secure borders programme.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28840966

[PeterCoultas]

BigDog +100

Home Office incompetence is a given – at least for the last 5 incumbents and the result of an agreed arbitration makes this clear

Fantasy threats (my recent small tin of caviar) turn border agency into a farce but that is par for the course with Teresa May

[AnthonyDunn]

Having personally experienced/witnessed monumental IT cock-ups in the financial services industry in the City of London (as a then software project manager), I am only too well aware of the risks associated with cutting-edge software developments which this project, apparently, was.

The problem (very often) is that there is plenty of (political) ambition on the part of HM Government and software vendors are only too ready to pander to this, offering ridiculously unrealistic development schedules, capabilities and costs. Add (because of the lack of Civil Service in-house technical expertise owing to low salary levels and the political decision not to employ external consultants…) the inability of the executive to act as an intelligent specifier/purchaser and you have all the ingredients for a comprehensive lash-up. Not once, but time and again.

The difference between the public and private sectors is that with the former, the National Audit Office is there to crawl all over public sector project management performance. In contrast, it is very definitely NOT seen by private sector managements as being in their long-term career interests to publicise such botch-ups and wasting of shareholders’ funds. We all pay for these failures whether through taxes or as customers through higher prices.

[BigDog.]

Very fair points, eruditely put Anthony. However in the private sector imo the “person in charge” would probably lose their job, then have limited prospects. The public sector person would either be protected or promoted (to move on) or get a very nice goodbye.

Your rationale is pertinent wrt our ability to deliver infrastructure projects, adding grist to why an estuary solution to the airport capacity issue, should never have been on the table.

Crossrail has taken 2 decades to start to come to fruition. Imagine the huge negative impact UK PLC would have if LHR went into 20-30 years of managed decline whilst due process etc for Boris Island and all the associated infrastructure went through legal hearings/ approvals/development.

[AnthonyDunn]

Hi BigDog.

I was recently advising my sister in planning her forthcoming trip to Berlin and suggested that she fly BA/LH so that she could take in the Tegel experience before the place gets raised to the ground, including the iconic control tower. I then realised that the new Berlin Brandenburg is now three years behind schedule in opening owing to the cock-ups in designing and installing (I believe it is) the electrics & electronics behind the fire control, lighting and baggage systems. I know that it is a bit mean of me but I do derive a certain satisfaction at the fact that even the Germans are capable of delivering a total cock-up as well!

[canucklad]

Gentleman
I give you the Edinburgh Trams as a classic case study in total meltdown of infrastructure improvement. And brilliantly, I’ll let you guess , what country was the failed primary contractor from ? …And I might add IMO, I would have replaced the word contractor with saboteur!!

EDIT TO ADD
And there is another major difference between private and public sector…… without letting too much out the bag, a private sector company is more likely to successfully sue the failing IT company, for failing deliver on agreed objectives in a timely fashion.

[AnthonyDunn]

Canucklad,

Having read the articles below, this really does read as if the entire project was viewed as a political football first and an infrastructure project second. So not much change there then!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-27159614
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams

BTW, have you actually tried out the new service yet? As I was in Manchester at the weekend, I chanced upon the newly extended tram system there. Strange how it is that Manchester has been able to get its tram system sorted out whilst Edinburgh has not…

[SimonS1]

It’s rare that a public or private sector project gets delivered these days without some form of balls up or protracted saga.

Plenty of recent transport examples – the West Coast train cock up, Heathrow T5 (15 years from planning application to opening, which in itself was a fiasco), Channel Tunnel, Thameslink 2000 (on track to be finished in 2018), Crossrail (various proposals going back to 70s/80s, and about 15 years to deliver the current model) and so on.

Not limited to UK either – how many delays did new Doha Airport have?

[rjhcambs]

….. and Berlin Brandenburg

[Author]

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