[capetonianm]

It does seem incredible to me that a first world (is it?) country such as the UK can have lost the plot so badly that it no longer knows who enters or leaves the country. As Bucksnet says, what is the plan? Is there a plan?

My suspicion, my fear, is that this is a prequel to joining the dreaded Schengen and doing away with the pretence of any controls, although the situation is so bad it might make little difference.

[pdtraveller]

Not sure there is a need to check departing passengers. The USA does not have departure border control for example.

I am with Martyn, would like to see greater co-op with USA to all pre clearance or UK citizens.

I also think it is quite unnecessary to be in a queue when teen tearing my home country and see no reason why access to e gates is restricted to adults when children pay double for the same passport.

The charging for visas won’t work as it will simply be a tax and not ring fenced.

[capetonianm]

If you don’t check departing passengers, how do you know if people who came in on limited stay visas have left, or if they have overstayed and thus become illegal?

The USA does not have departure control as such but they used to collect part of the landing card as some sort of reconciliation. I know that no longer applies but I am sure there is some kind of electronic reconciliation process against PNLs. I appreciate that this would not apply to transborder traffic.

[Bucksnet]

Agreed, departing passengers should be counted out so it’s known who’s overstayed their visa.

With over 2 million illegals in the UK today, and the last government admitting 75% of them are working, unemployment could be reduced by over 1.5 million upon their removal. A large reduction in crime would also result as the government’s own study proved that unemployment is a major cause of crime.

But that’s not part of the plan!

[transtraxman]

To be part of the Schengen scheme you need to have some reliable means of identification. The idea of ID cards has been rejected by British public opinion time after time. This makes it difficult for any government to “control” the people within its borders as well as new entrants.

Maybe it should be obligatory for asylum seekers, permanent and temporary residents, and even visitors to have ID cards (and have to produce them at all times when required) so that illegal stayers can be found, fined and deported.

If you have to pay for a visa why not add an ID card with a limit date. The technology exists so it should not be an administrative problem at all.

[Bucksnet]

You just need to make sure that foreigners have ID, like Canada does with its permanent resident card.

[Bullfrog]

@Bucksnet

Your reference to ‘the plan’ gives the impression that there is a ‘set agenda’ which infers ‘by someone or something’. Perhaps you could elucidate & indicate how this applies to all ‘our future travel plans’.

[Bucksnet]

I don’t want to get into more ‘conspiracy theories’ but something’s clearly not right. As for travel, things have got worse and will probably continue to do so.

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

Bucksnet

‘I don’t want to get into more ‘conspiracy theories…”.

Laugh of the day.

I think, as a poster recently pointed out, you are lovable!

[transtraxman]

Bucksnet

I was trying to say that anybody who enters Britain gets a “boarding card” (or ID) which means that if the person is a non-EU member he/she must produce a valid one. Thus to use public services and remain in the country that person must have a valid card(with date limitation), otherwise …..

[MarcusUK]

There is a problem with ID cards, especially when used in the UK from Europe. There are few systems that can link in and authenticate them here, unlike passports.
I have colleagues in different establishments in London, that have uncovered the use of false ID cards, driving licences etc, from people outside of the EU, but claiming to be from within the EU. These have been used for employment, and other uses.

The Government chose not be be “in Schengen”.
This path means therefore, that we should be responsible, we check people in and out. We should know who is here, who has, or is overstaying.
I refer again to Australia strict, but fair system, where i lived for several years and travel back to each year. It works very well. If you overstay or engage in criminal activity, you do not get back in. If you do not exit when stated, or Visa’s expire, they will locate you, process you, and they exit you, and you do not get back in.

I would also suggest, that Customs Services be again separate from Immigration services, each needing different resources and skills. One should not be traded off for another. The UK does not show competence in either currently, as identified by Parliament itself.

This enables more speciality, expertise, resources, and accountability for each service. This works very well in The Netherlands, in Europe a good role model. Think of how you feel they operate arriving in Amsterdam, compared to arrival into LHR?!

[FormerlyDoS]

The suspicioun about the Shengen zone in the UK is illogical, irrational and nuts.

Schengen countries control in and out, the UK only in, so patently hasn’t a clue about how many people actually reside in the country – it’s nuts.

[Bullfrog]

@Bucksnet

You are the one that indicated ‘there was a plan’ & now you refer to ‘conspiracy theories’.

Sharing your thoughts on how this affects travel would be useful.

[capetonianm]

FormerlyDoS

I have travelled Schengen to non-Schengen without being controlled out, and with only cursory controls in.

The point is that even if the external borders to Schengen were properly controlled – and we know they’re not – if the UK were to join Schengen, it would lose control completely of who leaves and enters.

So why is my theory ‘nuts’!

[Bucksnet]

@Bullfrog

No doubt there’s a plan behind what’s going on, but any speculation about that would result in people saying it’s a conspiracy theory.

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