[MartynSinclair]

CallMeIshmael

I can confirm with certainty that Captain’s do not have carte blanche to upgrade all and sundry. A few months ago I was flying with a Captain, who was a former colleague in another life, who was pleased that I was comfy in 60J as he said upgrading even for him was nigh on impossible. Even CSD’s who are friends are very reluctant to upgrade.

The ones that still seem to control things are the red caps. I have previously mentioned that a Captain friend I was travelling with (he was flying the aircraft) was dumbfounded how 2 Qantas cabin crew managed to go from economy to First, whilst he was unable to arrange a club to first upgrade for his mother!

The Ops manual will provide clarity – the politics you mention has only been created by crew and friends of crew jostling for position. The result is a kind of ‘grey market’ – I just find it extremely distasteful when the bubble in the 747 turns out to be an overflow for kling-ons!

Some may disagree, but there again, those that have access to premier seating area for less than the cost of an economy ticket and managing to avoid paying the APD’s etc will most certainly disagree!!

[CallMeIshmael]

Martyn,
I concur with your point wrt Red Caps prior to departure.
I should have been clearer, once doors are closed, then the captain has total sanction on whatever is left, should he wish to use it, as often redcaps do not bother. The CSD can no longer upgrade anyone.

[MartynSinclair]

Still need the ops manual and still wondering who pays the APD??

[VintageKrug]

So let me get this straight, MS.

You’re poking around with the CAA and the sorts of questions you’re asking about could lead to anyone who is upgraded (for whatever reason, even unconnected with your obsession about 60B) being asked to pay the additional premium cabin APD charge.

Utterly bonkers.

What possible positive outcome are you expecting from this…?

[MartynSinclair]

I see VintageKrug, what you are now suggesting is that not only do the priviledged obtain a free upgrade (yes occasionaly I have also enjoyed them) but lets keep quiet about it because there may be a tax thats due, but hey, ssshhhhhhhh – then we wont have to pay it.

This is very interesting. You admonish the BASSA reps for bullying, which has led to a police investigation, yet where a possible tax avoidance is concerned, you suggest we all keep quiet.

I am “obsessed” with 60B as you are “obsessed” over the demise of BASSA.

I think you need to review your morals in more ways than one – remember, tax avoidance is a criminal offence. I wonder how much tax BA or its employees owe……………..I also wonder, if its true about APD on upgrades, how much tax you may be persoanally liable for, no wonder you are questioning motives???

The BA ops manual will at least provide answers about the use of the crew seats – if anyone dares to post a pdf copy.

[VintageKrug]

Tax avoidance is NOT a criminal offence.

Tax evasion is a criminal offence.

But you go ahead and stir up the hornets nest and I’m sure many hundreds of Business Travellers will thank you when they get stiffed for an extra £100 if they accept an upgrade.

Well done you.

Typical socialist claptrap, where the many suffer for the misguided “morals” of the few, dressed up as fairness.

As a matter of record, I was upgraded for free by BA once last year from J to F. Under current legislation, I would not be liable for any extra APD tax as at present involuntary upgrades attract no tax.

As ever there is some snide suggestion that I work for or am connected with BA in some way, which I don’t, never have.

I certainly hope no-one is sending you any BA Ops manuals; they should be company confidential, and I can imagine would be quite a security breach if they were released by a member of BA staff.

[MartynSinclair]

VintageKrug

Whilst you have an “interesting” reputation, I have made no snide remarks or suggestions that you are either employed, work (ed) or are connected with BA.

Quite frankly, I really couldn’t care two hoots who you are, except that you have access to a tremendous amount of knowledge and information about travel, which is generally very useful to the forum.

If you are Willie himself, wonderful, if you are a binman, wonderful – if you are Jeremy Clarkson, wonderful – it really does not matter who you are suffice that your contributions are extremely valuable.

To suggest I am a socialist is extremely interesting – nothing could be further from the truth. I am a believer in a fair tax system and am absolutely against any right wing bigot that feels that they are above the law and can avoid paying a tax. If tax is due, it should be paid.

To make a post onto any thread promoting a one way CE redemption ticket to Dignitas IMHO shows you have an extremely sick and distateful mind. By all means debate, but please do not dare to insult the forum with such a disgusting suggestion.

Just so you know, I have unfortunately witnessed someone going to Dignitas and if you were truly aware of what they do, you would not have made such a debasing comment.

I am very suprised at you VK, your post was utterly disgraceful.

[MartynSinclair]

Having been to Dignitas and been present at a suicide, i couldnt watch the telly documentary. I would add that I was only present at the request of the individual, once he had been bought to Dignitas.

You have certainly crossed the line on your post 20:06 and hope you remove it for the sake of common decency and keep to the subject of the thread.

[CharlesJones]

Vintage Krug…..you should be ashamed of yourself. I’ve been keeping quiet on this forum for months now but your sick little go at MartynSinclair is highly offensive.

It’s even more sick and sad than someone pretending to be nothing to do with BA yet spending all their waking hours on a forum defending BA management so loyally.

Unbelievable,yet sadly not suprising.

[VintageKrug]

It appears I have inadvertently touched a rather personal nerve there, MS, for which I apologise.

The fact remains you are attracting attention to the way in which APD is levied and that cannot possibly have a positive outcome.

Specifically so for the many business travellers who post on this forum and might be in receipt of an involuntary upgrade.

It is bonkers to start drawing the CAA’s attention to this matter – which isn’t solely relevant to BA but to all airlines – and doubly so to be soliciting BA Ops Manuals online to support your case (which I imagine is in response to the CAA telling you it was a matter for BA to deal with).

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Vintage Krug

You sound very much like a member of the FCDL (Fat Cats Defence League.)

I suppose you don’t agree with the Daily Telegraph for investigating MP’s expenses either? Come to think of it, I wonder if you are an MP, it could explain a few things.

MS may raise whatever he wishes and your attack on him sounds rather self serving.

Every time I use miles to upgrade a seat with Air Malta, I pay a tax supplement for the privilege.

That is exactly how it should be and crew who are bumped from Y to F should also stump up, as should anyone else enjoying a voluntary upgrade.

[flier74]

Martyn all due your respect and I totally undrstand your issue with 60B, and trust me most Airline (BA) staff agree with you that it seems bonkers to give Flight Crew beds and a rest seat, never mind 60B, if there is a seat in FIRST they can have that instead. I have witnessed pilots in uniform eating, resting etc amongst full fare Passengers and I know of no other airline who offers this to their Pilot Community, BUT I do not believe that anyone will “dare” to publish pdf copies of the BA Ops Manual as you call it, it s indeed it is called something else, as this would be a sackable offence, publishing company internal manuals.
If they do they are mad. Have you tried to contact BA themselves with your concerns? Would be interesting to see what they say about it.

With regards to people on Jumpseats (Staff) on the Upper Deck, yes it is not always a pretty sight I admit, but that is a benefit of their Staff Travel which they are entitled to, and yes the Captain has an overall say on who gets them. Given the recent industrial developments of last year unfortunately for some Captains, Cabin Crew and their family are the last one to get them, they rather have some Pilot “friends” and their families on them I believe.
Same goes for Upgrades,the Captain has the authority, the Senior Cabin Crew member has this no longer and some Captains love this fact, i.e. moving the best friends’ gardeners’ dental nurses’ sister rather than any Cabin Crew…. and the Senior Cabin Crew member is no longer allowed to upgrade commercial passengers either, unless there is an important commercial reason and this will have to be logged and explained for in detail. Sad days but thats the way it stands now.

[Eastbourneguy]

Flier74
I agree with your comments – except the last one
Even last week i noticed once the doors had closed i witnessed the CSD upgrading a a passenger from WT+ to Club
If this passenger was entitles to an upgrade this should have been done prior to boarding out of the sight of other passengers

[CallMeIshmael]

Eastbourneguy.
The CSD would have been the person to execute the process however authority/instruction for the process to occur lays solely with the Captain.

[hac12394]

Back when my mum still had her staff travel I went on a trip with her, and was given 60B (on an MRU flight). The captain gave it to me, and in return the CSD put the WAGs and children of the F/O and captain into First. On a trip to HKG, with the OHARS, I was given 10J (3 class a/c) in Club – the last row, and furthest from the flight deck. Both times on full flights, but it was just one of the perks, I guess!
Those days are now gone, and it’s in the hands of the captains to upgrade, as mentioned above.
Regarding the jump seats, I have heard a story about crew refusing to allow managers on jumpseats on full flights – after the industrial action. Alas, the captain was given the power: just another way to limit the wrath of the CSD!

[Author]

Posts