[Anonymous]

[MartynSinclair]

I was on a 10 hour+ flight which was full and I was unable to get 2 seats together upstairs. I asked whether 60B upstairs was being released to a fare paying passengers and the response was no.
I managed to speak one of the cabin crew during the flight who explained that 60B is the Captain’s ‘Rest seat’ yet it was being used by some who quite clearly was not crew, unless BA now employs children! I was told that 60B is allocated to the Captain on flights of 8 hours or more and at his discretion; this seat can be used by a family member or by agreement a member of the cabin crew or even a friend of the crew.
I accept that perks exist, but do find it strange that there is a need for a prime business class seat to be ‘blocked’ for the benefit of the Captain when there is a flight deck that contains 4 seats plus a rest area consisting seperate from the working cockpit area for crew rest/sleep.

Bearing in mind the cabin crew dispute, if 60B was a revenue seat it would more than pay for a few extra (working) crew on a flight!

Can someone within BA please explain the history of 60B and why there is a need for the Captain to have a “Rest Seat” which I have never seen used by a Captain and can be given away at his/her discretion.

[BusinessClass]

I think 60B is normally reserved for a reserve pilot. On very long flights, apart from the pliots that are actually on the flight deck and operating the aircraft, there are at least 1 or 2 reserve pilots…………they have to sit somewhere, and it has to be comfortable as they could be needed!

In saying that, i was seated in 60B SYD-BKK earlier this year and my guess is that the First cabin was not full, so the reserve pilot sat there.

Maybe VK might be able to shed more light?

[travelworld]

Yes, I experienced that a little while back on a flight to San Francisco when I wanted to change my seat to that one and was told firmly that was completely impossible for the same reason- although no one ever actually occupied it during the flight…

[MartynSinclair]

There are 4 seats on the flight deck – all comfortable + the flight deck crew rest area bunks. I do not believe that BA fly with more than 4 operating flight deck crew on any sector, even for check rides. It seems strange that seat 60B remains blocked and even stranger if it flies empty, when a revenue paseenger could use it. I know pilots work hard, I know pilots need rest and I know pilots body clocks can get messed up. However, I still cant see the rationale for a “Captains seat” being blocked especially when there are creature comforts on the flight deck and especially when the Captain rarely if ever, uses it. I am sure one of you clever people can work out the lost revenue on the longer long haul sectors. It would certainly cover the cost of 1 extra cabin crew member.

[Potakas]

You are right Martyn, it doesn’t seem right a seat like this to be reserved, especially on the Upper Deck,

Although i am not a business planner ir an accountant i’ll try to predict what is the loss from this policy

If i am not wrong BA operates 49 747s, the cheapest return Club Ticket costs 2100 pounds and if we assume that each one is having 2 flights per 24hours, we have a total of 102,000 British Pounds per day.

In order BA to loose those money we have to assume that those planes are flying full on CW, although not everyone had to pay only 2100 pounds,

So it’s fair to say that BA is loosing money.

P.S. We should not forget that every of the CW passenger would love to flight on the upper deck,.

[MartynSinclair]

Excellent start in to the calculation. Even if you cut that number in half to account for:

* Part empty flights

* Sectors below 8 hours where only 2 crew are used, so no crew seat needed (mainly east coast USA/Canada flights)

……so call it 50,000 Sterling per day, thats still a shed load of money.

I hope a BA crew member takes the time to answer this, flight deck or cabin crew. As a proud shareholder, seat 60B is seemingly being used as a crew perk in a very interesting manner, when in these harsh economic times, profit should be prioritised.!

[craigwatson]

It is a contractual requirement. Captains seat to do with as he pleases.

But do bear in mind, imagine yourself sitting at your desk with nothing to do for 13/14 hours or so… very boring ( on long haul flights that have a cruise pilot aboard the captain/FO may spend 6/7 hours either sleeping and or watching a movie, maybe reading a book or manual) so they are ready to be fresh and alert for the following critical phases of flight.

You want the pilot to be able to get out of the flight deck to completely detach and refresh. (how many have tried to just take a quick 10/15 minute break at your desk, its hard to do, your always thinking about work, checking papers on your desk, same for pilots)

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

craig

So can the captain ‘give’ the seat to someone who has bought a cheap Y ticket or does this fall foul of the unofficial upgrading rules?

I ask this purely out of interest and have no axe to grind.

[craigwatson]

yes and no, technically he could, but it would be out of line in my opinion, as what if the first officer wanted to use it. Once its given away what if things change and someone needs a break, nowhere to go except to the crew bunk, which arent bad for sleeping but a nightmare if you just want to sit and relax.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

craig

Thanks – I’ve been in the flight deck of a 744 (before 9/11) and seen the bunk area, agree that it is not a place to sit and relax 🙂

Seems sensible to have the pilots seat near the office, just in case s/he is needed in a hurry.

[Potakas]

I agree with this point of view but still i cannot accept it in full, If i was working in a company i wouldn’t take the thing that we are selling in order to be more refreshed. Although here is part of the security the pilot to be refreshed and comfortable.

On my last CE flight i was seating on 2A and the pilots went inside and outside for at least 4 times during the flight. i and other passengers we were trying to sleep and they waked us up all of the times because they were hitting the door strongly and then they were chatting and laughing with the CE cabin crew.

Then a British Passenger who was sitting at 2C asked from the CE crew if they could be more quiet because he was also trying to sleep. The answer was that it is a day flight and they don’t have to, although they will try they best.

Also the CE cabin crew was wearing his ID with a BASSA advertising through his neck.Maybe that was the reason that they didn’t care a lot about their attitude.

[craigwatson]

a bit off topic in a way, but you would be amazed how many times a pilot wakes up to find he has accidently fallen asleep, only to sheepishly look to his fellow pilot and see he’s asleep as well.

It doesnt happen on every flight, or even the majority of flights, but it does happen on a high minority of flights. Just something to bear in mind when you see the pilots coming and going. Sometimes you just need to get up strech your legs, maybe grab a drink, and in essence just wake up.

[RodLondon]

This is a seat allocated as part of the rather generous BA flight crew agreement which provides them with a rest space (in addition to their in-flight beds). However, 61B could well be a very decent revenue earner as stated by Martyn and is actually rarely occupied by flight crew and ends up being one enormous red herring for BA.

A major bugbear is the frequent upgrading of their pals and family to this seat (and I do not believe cabin crew are involved as they do not currently indulge in staff travel). I have been sat in 60 A and actually begun a conversation with one of those friends of flight deck. And as a matter of note, the flight was extremely full, so it could well have been sold.

It seems BA bend over backward for its flight crew and this is yet another example. I suggest a revision of their earnings and agreements to bring those in line with industry averages.

[RodLondon]

Sorry I meant 60B not 61B

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