[first_class_please]

While i agree that there are better products out there, from what i have seen on my last few trips in F, BA still has a strong folloiwng.

Last trip was full in F both ways, previous trips 1 or 2 empty seats maximum.

This was on 777 aircrat with 14 seats, so while Cathay Pacific may to me, be a much better F seat, they have 6 First seats.

BA are selling 12 – 14, on the flights i have been on.

While all airlines discount to corporate customers and provide mileage seats, BA must be doing something right, or at least the majority of travellers find the offering suitable.

[MartynSinclair]

“BA are selling 12 – 14, on the flights i have been on”

I doubt very much that BA are SELLING 12 – 14 F seats on every flight.

Perhaps replace “selling” with “FILLING”!!

BA continues to get the support and following because of its timetable, schedule and connection opportunities…

I am a BIG supporter of BA, however, just because I support the airline, it doesn’t mean I will continue to use them – comfort on longhaul is too important and costly to choose an inferior product…

[FormerlyDoS]

first_class_please

FYI, a few weeks ago, a BA member of staff posted that the mean of sales of F seats was 3.9 per flight and the rest were ‘rolled forward’ upgrades or redemptions.

Makes you think.

I came back, in F, from Narita at the end of June; of the 7 in F, 4 were definitely redemptions (my family) and 1 appeared to be a rolled forward upgrade (from J.) Dunno about the other 2.

[AllOverTheGaff]

first_class_please – 20/08/2013 12:57 GMT
BA are selling 12 – 14, on the flights i have been on.

There was talk recently on the forum from someone who’d know that BA’s 1st class is inhabited by reward spenders some 70% of the time. Be that as a full on reward seat or as an Avios upgrade.

If this is the case, it would explain why BA are in no rush to overhaul their first class offering, but in all honesty, it is an embarrassing product now compared to countless other airlines.

Club is not to my own personal liking, but I would fly it on price/convenience if the routing was right. As for BA’s First – I would actually choose less convenient routing and scheduling to avoid BA and fly with over a dozen airlines before I’d fly in what is supposed to be their ‘elite’ cabin.

[SimonS1]

I agree with Tom on this one. It’s all about supply and demand.

In some instances the schedules ex London mean BA will pick up business even where the product may have shortcomings.

It would be interesting to see what happens if EK or SQ start flying UK to USA.

[FormerlyDoS]

Tell you what, guys, it’s nice to have a civlised discussion whatever the different views 😉

Much better than a few months ago.

[AllOverTheGaff]

TominScotland – 20/08/2013 12:44 GMT
My objection is that people seem to be arguing that BA MUST change their products with the force of a moral or categorical imperative. All I am asking is “why should they, nobody makes us fly with them?”.

Indeed Tom, there is little one can argue with in the above statement, nevertheless, I think it worth pointing out that I believe most of the whingers (for want of a better word) about BA do so from a position of wishing there was something better.

I know this is a wee bit O/T but I would have thought that BA’s board would have taken a long look at their operation when their Australasia business was lost to a rival carrier, and with that they might have reacted to losing such a considerable segment by offering something new and exciting for what is their ‘traditional’ routing.

I keep hearing from some quarters that BA don’t need to invest in their Transatlantic planes because they get “half” the revenue from AA – I’m dubious about that being even close to what they get. Whilst there is a commercial agreement in place, half sounds fanciful to me.

Perhaps BA’s new plane investment is all that the board believe is needed, the 787 situation is out of their control but I doubt many are clamouring aboard these right now, and the A380 offers nothing new once you are on-board save perhaps a new WT+, I’m not interested in long haul WT+.

I think this thread, like many, reinforces that inside-knowledge which was shared with us on the forum that BA don’t ‘need’ a comparable 1st class product to their opposition as the cabin is in the main used as a reward seat and therefore isn’t generating revenue to begin with.

[SimonS1]

AOTG – bearing in mind the title of the thread, surely the the ‘something new’ that the A380 offers is it will (hopefully) not break down every 5 minutes.

For example 3 flights going tech and returning to Riyadh in 2 weeks is not good, as are various examples of passengers being boarded onto two or three different aircraft and once reputation is lost it can take forever to recover.

First priority – deliver a reliable schedule, then sort out the premium comforts.

[AllOverTheGaff]

SimonS1 – 20/08/2013 13:42 GMT
First priority – deliver a reliable schedule, then sort out the premium comforts.

Simon, I’ve commented on this many times but feel compelled again – surely the launch of the A380 is an opportunity missed to not only improve reliability (which should be a default position on purchasing any new aircraft) but to also improve the customer experience.

One only has to look at what KLM are rolling out (by March 2014 no less!) on their long haul flights and indeed, how AA are responding to market evolution and customer demand with their business and 1st class offerings to see how slow BA have been to react. The point I was trying to make, is that British Airways had the motive and the opportunity to react and to come off the ropes with a knock-out blow with their new planes and they didn’t. All they did was introduce a couple of new planes to their ageing fleet.

No offence meant to those who are looking forward to BA’s new A380, I do appreciate and acknowledge the excitement around this particular delivery, but it doesn’t take an aviation market specialist to see that BA’s recent launches could have had the competition looking back over their shoulders, as it is, I suspect they are rather sniggering up their sleeves.

Such a pity.

[MartynSinclair]

“First priority – deliver a reliable schedule” – I believe first priority is to attract the customer and there is no better way to do so by a new aircraft having a fanfare launch & double that for a double aircraft launch…

The BA launch and launch pictures was muted to say the least!!!

My view remains – A MISSED OPPORTUNITY!!

[FormerlyDoS]

I sometimes wonder what BA’s strategy is.

I get Ryanair’s (although I seriously dislike the company, their strategy is clear as daylight) and also Lufthansa’s.

But what challenges does BA see, how does it overcome these, what makes it different to other airlines?

All I see are confused messages, happy lemon one month (full service differentiation), no bag fees soon after (low cost) and new fleets with old seat designs.

Doesn’t make sense to me.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Perhaps the stragety can be summed up in one word – “Survival”

I guess 5 years ago when fuel costs shot up, followed by financial crisis, BA decided it was best to not invest in hard/soft product and try to keep alive. However in this time other carriers saw this hardship to re-invest in J/F product so that people stayed up front and even payed extra to travel in superior product. This is where BA rested on there laurels and may now be paying the price. I think the frustration of many is that they were a world leader – but no more and the seem to stubborn to realise that they are no longer. Yes they may be consistently the best European carrier for longhaul Business class in that they have nearly 100% flatbed, but with the others catching up and overtaking them they could be caught napping. As for carriers from Asia, Middle East and even the US, they appear to be gaining a lot.

I’d love to say BA are the best – but they aren’t. On a side note I did fly on a 747-400 to SFO 2 years ago in 62K. Thought it was quite good. No duct tape in site. There is no reason why these planes could be the best planes in the sky – with a bit of TLC.

[MartynSinclair]

Thai is the prime example of a good first class product in an ancient 747-400….

[FormerlyDoS]

Tim

Survival is not a strategy, it’s a goal 🙂

[SimonS1]

AOTG – yes I full agree. Ideally you would do both, new aircraft and improved configuration.

However I sense resource and money is tight at BA, so of the two I would think getting a new/reliable fleet together would be first prize.

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