BA 2023+ ex LHR/LGW – Where should they “expand”?/Can they really expand?
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at 09:19 by Harbord1.
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sparkyflierParticipantMarvivJ – interesting to read – especially as I understand they are pulling out of San Jose, California.
Re Mexico City – if they do that is maybe to stop VS and new Skyteam partner Aeromexico from cozyying up too much. However I would have thought using larger aircraft than 789 would be the next stage.
cwoodwood – I am inclined to agree to some extent – BA should get themselves to Stanfords in Covent Garden and see there is a whole world out there which people want to go to.
Qatar are constantly adding new flights to LHR and one wonders where they get the slots from and suspect BA cannot be bothered and just lend them the slots. And VS had spare slots and what did they do with them (not without a shortage of options and ideas from another discussion on this forum)? Simply gave them to Saudia to add another Riyadh flight.
AlanOrton1 – BA are not short of beancounters and the problem with connecting at Miami, or at DFW or IAH for that matter is that changing at US airports passengers still need to get an visa or ESTA and queue for hours just to get a passport stamped and checked.
I know many who travel between Latin America and UK/EU or vv and the word they use invariably for connecting in US is “horrendous”. Most have also tried Iberia and Air Europe and tend to have a healthy dislike for them, and it seems AF and KL are the most trusted and liked options in both business and economy.
15 Apr 2023
at 19:59
cwoodwardParticipantIt seems that BA gave up long ago re Asian tourist destinations and seeded the business FOC to Cathay and HK express and SIA.
New Zealand is another failure. The country has now over 5.3 million population with a huge part of that population being Brits who arrived in the past 40 years many now with now high disposable incomes who travel to the UK in high numbers
Brits also go to the NZ in high numbers with little promotion. Now all must travel via HK, S’pore or also now the sandpit. In 2019 pre covid 240,000 arrived from the UK – that’s 480,000 bums on seats.ANZ, its said due to gross mismanagement and an Asian US focus pulled of the route that they used to fly 3 times daily. They now have a joint venture on the route (as far as HK) with Cathay who will soon revert to two daily flights to Auckland and 3 times a week to Christchurch as well as ANZs one daily. All with a seamless change in Hong Kong to the UK on Cathays soon to be seven times daily to the UK with five being to LHR .
To me it seems that BA is fast going down a US focused direction that risks being gobbled up like VA……even now it is hardy a world airline anymore, clearly due to there being no entrepreneurs in the joint -all very sad………and what about Africa, fairly obviously just too hard for BA this while the European airlines are making hay on the African continent
16 Apr 2023
at 03:34
cwoodwardParticipantI don’t wholly understand what are the ‘times like these’ -sounds rather like a long departed UK sales manager ours.
Other airlines are expanding to new destination and others (many successful)starting up.
The USA market comes at a cost as with VA and in a few years the cupboard will contain only a few skeletons instead of a wealth of profitable routes. Its happened before.16 Apr 2023
at 12:29
MarkivJParticipantI don’t wholly understand what are the ‘times like these’ -sounds rather like a long departed UK sales manager ours.
Other airlines are expanding to new destination and others (many successful)starting up.
The USA market comes at a cost as with VA and in a few years the cupboard will contain only a few skeletons instead of a wealth of profitable routes. Its happened before.The USA market is BA’s “speciality”, I’d say their forte. I don’t think any other European airline can be as successful as BA when it comes to cracking or expanding in the US market. I’m not saying other EU airlines haven’t done it successfully, but certainly nowhere as successful as BA has.
At first, I was thinking maybe because of the Britain-USA history and close ties between both countries…but if that were the only reason, then even Virgin Atlantic would’ve also been successful in a lot of its routes (like Chicago) but wasn’t. BA just has that “X factor” when it comes to the US market. That explains why, for example, their flights into ATL (a DL monopoly) always flies full.
It’s a reciprocal love affair from the US airports as well – that explains why SJC and AUS both threw so many incentives at BA to start flights to their cities but didn’t give a **** for the other ones that also started like LH, etc. (And LH pulled out of SJC rather quickly!).
So, if BA were given a choice between starting (or expanding), between Destination_A or a new US destination (or expanding in a current one), they’d pick the later just because much less work is needed upfront; they have the whole “grow in the US” motion down to a science and they believe in a higher probability of success.
I’m not a fan of this approach at all cwoodward, for a lot of the reasons even you mention. But BA is just like any other corporation in the world, and as we hear all the time at work from our LT – “go for the lower hanging fruit, especially if we can be agile and show easy wins”.
16 Apr 2023
at 23:09
MarkivJParticipantMarvivJ – interesting to read – especially as I understand they are pulling out of San Jose, California.
Re Mexico City – if they do that is maybe to stop VS and new Skyteam partner Aeromexico from cozyying up too much. However I would have thought using larger aircraft than 789 would be the next stage.
cwoodwood – I am inclined to agree to some extent – BA should get themselves to Stanfords in Covent Garden and see there is a whole world out there which people want to go to.
Qatar are constantly adding new flights to LHR and one wonders where they get the slots from and suspect BA cannot be bothered and just lend them the slots. And VS had spare slots and what did they do with them (not without a shortage of options and ideas from another discussion on this forum)? Simply gave them to Saudia to add another Riyadh flight.
AlanOrton1 – BA are not short of beancounters and the problem with connecting at Miami, or at DFW or IAH for that matter is that changing at US airports passengers still need to get an visa or ESTA and queue for hours just to get a passport stamped and checked.
I know many who travel between Latin America and UK/EU or vv and the word they use invariably for connecting in US is “horrendous”. Most have also tried Iberia and Air Europe and tend to have a healthy dislike for them, and it seems AF and KL are the most trusted and liked options in both business and economy.
Thank you for your insights as always sparkyflier. I enjoy reading and learning from your views.
1. I wasn’t aware of BA pulling out of SJC. Is this a new update? They’re back to flying daily, I thought.
2. About Mexico City – BA were never as successful as IB, AF, etc. on this route so they’ll probably first test the waters with a “more frequency” vs “more capacity” approach before expanding their current capacity to a 772 or 77W.16 Apr 2023
at 23:16
AMcWhirterParticipantLatest rumours is that AA’s much hyped SEA-LHR isn’t coming back after they have suspended it for the 2023 winter season
Appears to be confirmed. Just now I checked aa.com and I couldn’t fimd an AA non-stop SEA-LHR flight displayed for the winter schedule.
AA’s SEA-BLR planned service has been dropped. There is no chance that AA could restart that service while the Russia overflying ban remains.
Air India is operating BLR-SFO because its 777-200LRs overfly Russia.
23 Apr 2023
at 13:20
AMcWhirterParticipantAt first, I was thinking maybe because of the Britain-USA history and close ties between both countries…but if that were the only reason, then even Virgin Atlantic would’ve also been successful in a lot of its routes (like Chicago) but wasn’t. BA just has that “X factor” when it comes to the US market. That explains why, for example, their flights into ATL (a DL monopoly) always flies full.
MarkivJ- It’s all to do with connectivity beyond LHR.
Most of these are international but more domestic points will be added to the network. As you probably read from Mark’s piece a few days ago Scotland’s Loganair is now code-sharing with BA on a number of domestic routes.
VS tried to tap the domestic market with Little Red …but without success.
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23 Apr 2023
at 13:26
sparkyflierParticipanthttps://www.britishairways.com/travel/schedules/public/en_gb
Hi MarkivJ
Above link to ba.com where I went to the timetables section and inserted random dates in November.
1 user thanked author for this post.
23 Apr 2023
at 19:37
MarkivJParticipantAt first, I was thinking maybe because of the Britain-USA history and close ties between both countries…but if that were the only reason, then even Virgin Atlantic would’ve also been successful in a lot of its routes (like Chicago) but wasn’t. BA just has that “X factor” when it comes to the US market. That explains why, for example, their flights into ATL (a DL monopoly) always flies full.
MarkivJ- It’s all to do with connectivity beyond LHR.
Most of these are international but more domestic points will be added to the network. As you probably read from Mark’s piece a few days ago Scotland’s Loganair is now code-sharing with BA on a number of domestic routes.
VS tried to tap the domestic market with Little Red …but without success.
Yes. But even comparing BA to other EU carriers like LH and KL that also have connectivity beyond their hubs, I still just feel no EU carrier has figured out and has a hold on the US market the way BA does. USA is BA’s super-power!
25 Apr 2023
at 00:24
MarkivJParticipanthttps://www.britishairways.com/travel/schedules/public/en_gb
Hi MarkivJ
Above link to ba.com where I went to the timetables section and inserted random dates in November.
So the rumoured 3rd daily is supposed to be an even later departure from Seattle (I believe 11pm local time) arriving in London around 5p’ish the next day. Not sure if it’ll get approved, and when it will start.
25 Apr 2023
at 00:27
sparkyflierParticipantI suspect SEA has a lot of supply now and maybe more then demand justifies – I think AA are pulling out of the route and I suppose BA could take a 3rd daily flight, but think there is lower hanging fruit in the form of many other routes which were cancelled when Covid arrived, as well as plentiful other options in Africa and Latin America.
In the meantime, earlier in this thread about the BA Male/<Maldives route being seasonal, and I think TimFitzgeraldTC suggested this should in fact be a year round route.
Well it seems BA listened as I happened to notice that BA over the Summer months will ply Male 3 x week using 789, even in July and August.
1 user thanked author for this post.
27 Apr 2023
at 14:37
sparkyflierParticipantI have heard that BA will launch a new Accra service from LGW for the Winter timetable, 3 x weekly.3 class 772 operating is a given.
I have no doubt demand is there, but hopefully they will add a destination like Abidjan as a tag or as a triangle.
Wondering that the driver to do this is apart from demand is .. keeping VS out?
Hope also they have schedules that are different to LHR – so overnight out and day flight back. We shall see.
25 May 2023
at 00:21 -
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