BA 2023+ ex LHR/LGW – Where should they “expand”?/Can they really expand?

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Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 220 total)

  • sparkyflier
    Participant

    https://www.britishairways.com/travel/schedules/public/en_gb

    Confirmed – BA adding 3 flights per week from LGW starting in the Winter timetable. These flights are in addition to the daily flights from LHR, so there will be 10 flights weekly.

    Flights out from LGW leave 12:00 arriving at ACC 18:35. Returning flights leave ACC at 21:20 arriving LGW at a somewhat un-Godly 4am.

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    Harbord1
    Participant

    It’s also about BA’s dominance over LHR slots. Gives them the best departure and arrival times and also allows them higher frequencies and much more network feed. It doesn’t matter what Virgin Atlantic does – they have the slots they have and that is that.


    sparkyflier
    Participant

    Earlier in this thread I mentioned how BA were short of long haul aircraft following Covid, especially having removed the entire 747, even those just refurbished, from their fleet.

    Of course they have had to withdraw from over a dozen routes as they simply do not have the aircraft, and so any new routes are very rare indeed.

    Indeed they now do not have enough aircraft to service their 2023 Summer timetable as on the Chicago route one daily service will be operated by a very new Air Belgium A330-900neo.

    This aircraft will ply the morning flight to ORD for BA on the BA295 and returning on the BA294.

    But for most passengers this will be good news as the hard product in economy is far superior IMO than BAs 777 & 787 seating product. The BA economy seating on both these aircraft is very tight indeed where as the 339’s seating is of course 2-4-2!

    I understand the premium economy seating is on a par and the Business product similar/the same as the Iberia product – maybe the one with a door too but stand to be corrected.

    No First product however but those wanting that cabin have the option of the A380 flight later in the day.

    Personally I wish BA had ordered A330s to replace the 767 years ago and think their route network would have been wider and more interesting.

    This news just shows how limited BA are at present with expanding their network and one wonders if they should chat with Finnair and see if they can lease some of their A330s which Qantas have been doing!

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    AndrewinHK
    Participant

    Sparkyflier, interestingly for the first few weeks at least, J class doesn’t appear as available on BA.COM for the Air Belgium-operated rotation, only Y class, I wonder if that is because they aren’t selling, or it is fully booked (seems unlikely) when the other BA and AA rotations seem to have plenty of J space.


    CheerUp
    Participant

    I’d like to see BA reintroduce HEL, but from LGW, so not as a direct comeptition to AY, an additional option from another LON airport.


    AndrewinHK
    Participant

    Sparkyflier, do you think BA is really short of long-haul aircraft? They started multiple new long-haul routes this year (Cincinnati/Portland/Aruba/Georgetown) operating 30% of capacity out of the UK to the US. Asia’s capacity is down, but because of lower demand and worse economics due to the longer flight times, HKG and SIN are back to double daily. BA expanding LGW to serve Accra, but the quite extensive long haul routes not just to the Carribean but to JFK, DOH, and Cape Town. I think it’s an underreported story what they are doing at LGW, and I wonder what long-haul aircraft they will use to replace the aging 777 LGW fleet, those decisions will need to be made soon, I guess we might see older 77W move over to LGW as the 77x arrives for LHR or could BA buy second-hand long hauls (maybe a380’s like Global) to operate LGW routes (I think very unlikely a380, but they might pick up second-hand 77W’s), Willie Walsh when he headed IAG said that he regretted not ordering more 77W’s for BA, a quicker solution would be for them to just buy Norse.


    cwoodward
    Participant

    Yes they are short of aircraft – with the 19 X B747 that were retired mid 2020 never been fully replaced and the network expanded.
    They are needing to wet lease aircraft and it seems even with these are unable to maintain service on all routes

    The average age of the B777 fleet is now past its ‘use by’ date with the 40 X B777-200 fleet averaging over 25 years old and requiring very significant maintenance to keep them flying.

    However the most significant point is that they seem to have firm orders for only 4 widebody aircraft! I found this difficult to believe and am thus not 100% certain but it seems to be correct.


    sparkyflier
    Participant

    AndrewinHK you make interesting points.

    What I would say about those 4 destination is that Cincinatti is the only real new route – Portland was announced pre-Covid and Georgetown and Aruba are merely tags to existing and daily/near daily to St Lucia and Antigua, made possible by Port of Spain becoming standalone nonstop 3 x weekly. Also Lima from Gatwick has not yet come back but Accra is a sensible move as it is only 6 hours away which I guess fits in nicely with other routes.

    Other routes you mention are simply building up to previous schedule levels, but routes still not resumed off the top of my head are Osaka, Seoul, KL, Bangkok, Muscat, Abu Dhabi, Beirut (?), Mahe, Durban and maybe others.

    Re aircraft – interesting thought about Norse. I wonder if they should just buy some A330s from Qatar or another airline and let these do Gatwick routes – but appreciate that they may not want to add another aircraft type etc etc. Or just add even 3 788s with a less Club seats which could ply 6 or more new routes. But as you say buying an airline may be easier!

    cwoodward – BA have ordered loads of new 777 8 or 9 but these are years behind schedule. It seems you are partly right however as until these start coming in there may be only 4 or so A350 or 787-10 which are coming in.

    AndrewinHK about your earlier point on Air Belgium operated flights not offering J seats – I have no idea but maybe a TC could give insight on that.

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    sparkyflier
    Participant

    I was reminded late last night of this discussion while watching Joanna Lumley’s latest travel documentary series, this time exploring the history of the spice trades and focusing on Indonesia, India, Madagascar, Zanzibar in Tanzania and Jordan.

    IMO she is a formidable presenter for many reasons and so highly recommend this series to anyone who can access it. It was on UK ITV.

    So how that touches on this discussion is that Zanzibar in Tanzania is of course a stunning location with great history which I think appeals to many in the UK and just reminds me how tiny BA’s Africa network is but those here will know my strong feelings about that!

    But in this instance I just wanted to focus on route suggestions for this region.

    LGW – Kilimanjaro-Dar-LGW 3 x weekly
    LGW – Zanzibar-Dar-LGW 3 x weekly

    Using 772 and crew resting in Dar.

    Holiday traffic would head to Kili/Zanzibar while Dar would be primarily business traffic.

    I know BA are short of planes but thought to share this to get your views on the demand for such a route.

    It is worth noting that KL do JRO and Dar as a triangle most days using large 787-10, with Zanzibar with Dar 2 x weekly, and Air France do Zanzibar thrice weekly with 789 along with Dar.

    Separately in the Americas – would there be demand for Puerto Vallarta? Mexico is getting even more popular after all. And how about Belize?

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    BackOfThePlane
    Participant

    Belize would be an excellent option from Heathrow but would only support a 787-8 at most. It wouldn’t work from Gatwick as the 777 is too large and it would need feeder traffic from Europe to work. Unfortunately, as discussed, BA doesn’t have any spare aircraft.

    Perhaps BA need to buy a few second hand A380s (they seem to be going cheap at the moment, eh Global?) to free up other aircraft.


    CheerUp
    Participant

    {Perhaps BA need to buy a few second hand A380s (they seem to be going cheap at the moment, eh Global?) to free up other aircraft.}

    Likely to have a better J class offering than the current BA A380 product anyway!

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    sparkyflier
    Participant

    BackOfThePlane 0- agree with you re A380s. Maybe they are hoping to buy them off Global within a short period of time..
    But just another couple of A380s could go on routes such as GRU, SIN, HKG and release the A350/789s etc

    Re Americas – how about:-

    LGW – Belize-Puerto Vallarta-Belize-LGW – 2 x weekly 772. Could capture premium traffic on both destinations. Crew would rest in Belize and do the shuttle to Mexico similar to other BA Caribbean routes – Grand Cayman, Providenciales (of KFC fame), Grenada etc

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    BackOfThePlane
    Participant

    @sparkyflyer

    Well, Global Airlines appear to have bought 4 second hand A380s which, by the end of next year, will have been serviced and made flight ready. So they say. Perhaps BA will be able to get their hands on them in 2025 and refurbish with Club Suites etc. I’m just not sure which engines the Global A380s come with.

    As far as Belize is concerned, I would think that combining Havana & Belize would make more sense, especially now that Virgin Atlantic have pulled out of Havana. They might even get (the very limited) 5th Freedom rights between Havana & Belize City. Alas, I think politics would get in the way.

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    AndrewinHK
    Participant

    IAG in its earning release confirmed it has converted options for six Boeing 787-10s held by British Airways into firm orders. Fleet Discovery database shows British Airways has 18 777-9s on order with options for 24 aircraft, plus orders for five 787-10s and now an additional 6. BA also has three Airbus A350-1000s on order with options for 10 aircraft. IAG reported record operating profit, hopefully this all bodes well for further route developments.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    sparkyflier
    Participant

    AndrewinHK – thank you for that fleet order update. Is it known when these 787-10s will arrive in the fleet?

    The remaining A350-1000 I guess are the next to arrive but as the 777-9 will not arrive for 3/4 years plus there really is not much coming soon it seems.

    A slightly separate issue with the 787-10 is that BA chose and selected for their aircraft that they did not have crew rest facilities. Given these ply routes as far as Seattle and Dallas I think this is very mean indeed. These are flights up to 10 hours!

    BackOfThePlane – good point re Havana! And does anyone know why neither BA or VS go there? I am pretty sure the market is there. When VS decided to not actually start operations there (although for them that is not unusual) some on this forum thought there may have been underlying political issues which made the route awkward. But US Big 3 and Jet Blue all operate to Havana so why would a UK operating a flight there be an issue? After all AF, IB and UX all operate widebodies there and so why not BA or VS?

    Another factor for a Belize route is UK armed forces do lots of training there -so maybe military traffic and some cargo in addition to the premium leisure and some business traffic.

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