Air France to scrap Joon subsidiary?

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This topic contains 51 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by  MarcusGB 1 Feb 2019
at 18:22
.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 52 total)

  • Kimi_CDG
    Participant

    “It now seems that as well as the main SNCF branding, they are competing with themselves with brandings called Ouigo and Ouibus. I am not sure if IDTGV still exists.”

    It’s a strategy used a lot.
    Renault produces a low-cost car called Logan. In countries where the brand already exists (France, Algeria…), it is sold with the Dacia logo, not to “reduce” the value of the brand.
    In countries like India, it is a Renault Logan.

    OuiGo is a different brand because the customers must understand that the rules are different. Cheaper but tickets are not refundable, there is no bar, no first class…
    As I mentioned before, IDTGV had a different purpose. ID is pronounced the same as “idée” (Idea) in French. SNCF has tried to innovate with this product. With IDTGVMax passes, you could get unlimited IDTGV journeys.
    And no, IDTGV was discontinued a year ago.

    Again, I’m no marketing expert. It is definitely confusing but it’s not an irrelevant idea from a bureaucratic mind.
    Remember also it has been a way for SNCF to bypass generous (and outdated) rail workers employment status. Same for AF it seems.


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    Interesting La Tribune piece yesterday.

    Joon will remain until this coming June or July. But even when its aircraft are transferred to Air France the Joon colours will not be disappearing until 2021.

    And the first six A350s of Air France will be delivered to Air France in a configuration which was intended for Joon.

    More confusion for passengers as the these A350s’ seating will differ from that of Air France.

    https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/joon-s-arrete-cet-ete-mais-la-marque-restera-sur-des-avions-d-air-france-jusqu-en-2021-803670.html


    canucklad
    Participant

    I’ll make another prediction…….

    If Ben Smith moves on, then the dumping Joon decision will be reversed , especially if the replacement CEO happens to be promoted from within.

    And if the unions aren’t happy then this will happen sooner rather than later…….

    ce qui sera, sera


    capetonianm
    Participant

    then the dumping Joon decision will be reversed ,

    Then they will just look stupid, although come to think of it ………..


    christopheL
    Participant

    Let’s switch from gentle French bashing to gentle Bristish bashing.

    Once upon a time, an airline’s board decided to create a subsidiary on the basis of a very specific concept.
    Some time later, the board of this airline realized that these decision was a mistake and thus decided to make ean end to this company.
    In other countries, many people made fun of this airline that proved to be unable to effectively manage its future and had wasted so much money.
    This critics only lasted for a few days as the airline dispeared very soon after the decision was made.

    Once upon about the same time, a European people decided to leave the EU after he was told that EU was a waste of money and that he will be given his money back when leaving it.
    After two years of negotiation, an agreement was signed between the EU and this country but the parliament of the latter refuses to approve it by the most severe vote ever suffered by a prime minister in this country.
    However, against all odds, the same parliament decided to maintain it’s trust in the same Prime Minister no later than the following day.
    No one understood anything but at least it allowed everyone to continue to criticize everyone else. What a funny fury !

    In foreign countries, many people made fun of this country which appeared to be unable to manage its future and was able to humiliate its Prime Minister on Tuesday before giving her it’s trust again the following day.
    These foreign criticisms did not pose any problem to locals because the newspapers of the other countries were not written in the same language.
    As a result, they continued to fight each other under the look both amused and incredulous of other countries and to the delight of there local bookmakers.

    Morality: There is nothing better than persisting in error when one wants to entertain his neighbors to his own detriment.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    Swissdiver
    Participant

    Let’s switch from gentle French bashing to gentle Bristish bashing.

    Once upon a time, an airline’s board decided to create a subsidiary on the basis of a very specific concept.

    Some time later, the board of this airline realized that these decision was a mistake and thus decided to make ean end to this company.

    In other countries, many people made fun of this airline that proved to be unable to effectively manage its future and had wasted so much money.

    This critics only lasted for a few days as the airline dispeared very soon after the decision was made.

    Once upon about the same time, a European people decided to leave the EU after he was told that EU was a waste of money and that he will be given his money back when leaving it.

    After two years of negotiation, an agreement was signed between the EU and this country but the parliament of the latter refuses to approve it by the most severe vote ever suffered by a prime minister in this country.

    However, against all odds, the same parliament decided to maintain it’s trust in the same Prime Minister no later than the following day.

    No one understood anything but at least it allowed everyone to continue to criticize everyone else. What a funny fury !

    In foreign countries, many people made fun of this country which appeared to be unable to manage its future and was able to humiliate its Prime Minister on Tuesday before giving her it’s trust again the following day.

    These foreign criticisms did not pose any problem to locals because the newspapers of the other countries were not written in the same language.

    As a result, they continued to fight each other under the look both amused and incredulous of other countries and to the delight of there local bookmakers.

    Morality: There is nothing better than persisting in error when one wants to entertain his neighbors to his own detriment.

    Wait, Christophe, it is not a question of French bashing. I am not saying it never happens here. But not in this case. The Joon case is very interesting business-wise and will certainly inspire number of business schools when we’ll have more about it.

    Now on the Prime Minister… Whether you like her or not is not, her resilience remains admirable. She works for the UK while the MP’s are a disgrace to the country! I truly hope voters will fire these guys who forgot they were elected by the People, but FOR the People! That said, I am curious to see what will come next. A hard ball negotiation is now taking place where all parties (EU and UK) have lots to loose if they fail to agree.

    Back to what brings us here… Joon will be a lesson for many. What worked in the hotel business (Indigo & co) didn’t in the airline business. Let’s see what will be the next move…


    christopheL
    Participant

    I fully agree with you. Criticizing Joon is not French bashing at all. The Joon concept is definitively weird. About the same economy product and a similar pricing to AF with a brighter blue color scheme, BoB food and millenium-looking CC ! With all Joon flights being sold on the AF website (no specific Joon website) with AF flight numbers I really can’t understand the interest of this new marketing brand and I am happy it will be discontinued.
    The gentle French bashing I was referring to relates to some posts by kids who try to convince themselves that these stupid French will do their utmost to torpedo Ben Smith’s decision to make the Joon brand disappear.
    What they imagine for AF/Joon future immediately made me think of the Brexit psychodrama with a big difference however : Brexit psychodrama started 3 years ago and it is getting worse and worse day after day 🙁


    MarcusGB
    Participant

    Yes, quite clear from within KLM/ AF shareholders information, that the brand is to be terminated.

    I have not chosen to fly AF for some time, as their reputation and behaviour has gained them such an awful reputation. I also the attitude on Board, and around CDG, when compared to the KLM Brand, and attitudes of The Dutch and the KLM Brand compared.

    I was looking at flights to Lisbon, where AF use re-branded (now to be “De-Branded”) A321 aircraft, and the Business seating seems very confusing. If you try to book a JOON flight on the KLM system, it cannot access the seat plan, and you cannot book a seat, no matter which cabin or your Flying Blue / Skyteam Elite status. Information or photographs on what is inside, the cabin, seating how it appears, services, are simply not there.

    AF compared to KLM is obviously So different, whether you are at CDG or Schiphol, and the attitudes of the staff completely as far apart as they can be, for one Company 2 brands.
    KLM have CityHopper for short European routes, but a brand new fleet of Embraer’s, that are superb. KLM itself still operates on its own brand through Europe with completely renewed fleets of the the 737 7/8/9’s, though the plan was to transfer more services to the CityHopper brand,but currently these are only for the Embraers.
    Transavia is a great success for KLM, operating at a 93% Load factor, expanding every year, and making large profits over 18% for KLM’s side according to 1/4 statistics, and Shareholder information.

    Air France have “HOP”, for shorter / domestic flights, so perhaps they should merely stay with these two brands, as neither are a success and their once great reputation, is demolished. I have not flown them for 2 years, and colleagues and friends much prefer KLM, to AF, who seem to be avoided.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    It looks as if another of AF’s ill-conceived ideas is about to disappear, namely the bizarrely named ‘Hop!’which I think operated as a short haul domestic carrier using CRJ100s on routes that didn’t have enough traffic to justify larger aircraft.

    Maybe AF itself will disappear too!

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    It looks as if another of AF’s ill-conceived ideas is about to disappear, namely the bizarrely named ‘Hop!’which I think operated as a short haul domestic carrier using CRJ100s on routes that didn’t have enough traffic to justify larger aircraft.

    I hope not, capetonianm, otherwise we are going to have to rewrite this piece.

    Is Air France ‘slot sitting’ at London Heathrow?


    pheighdough
    Participant

    capetonianm are you saying that HOP! is also now being disbanded?? They operate ATRs, Embraers and the CRJs and there was a story recently that they are ‘babysitting’ a slot at LHR for Air France.
    Unless of course this is all part of the larger plan where FlyBe are bought out by Virgin who are in bed with Delta, who are part of SkyTeam with KLM/Air France, and the whole regional market will be reshaped and FlyBe becomes part of HOP!/Cityhopper???


    capetonianm
    Participant

    My source :

    ‘Air France stopt met merk HOP!’

    https://www.telegraaf.nl/financieel/3087836/air-france-stopt-met-merk-hop

    The original source is a French business news medium called La Tribune.

    Parijs – Luchtvaartmaatschappij Air France wil naar verluidt stoppen met haar merk HOP! Volgens de Franse zakenkrant La Tribune wordt de regionale dochter ondergebracht bij haar moedermaatschappij. Dat zou blijken uit een interne presentatie van het bedrijf.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    capetonianm
    Participant

    The headline says ‘ Air France is ending the Hop branding.

    The operation is not ending, simply the branding, and I assume that the flights will continue to operate as AF. Whether they will waste more money repainting the aircraft remains to be seen.

    The same applies as with Joon. It is being absorbed into the ‘moedermaatschappij’ – mother company.


    AMcWhirter
    Participant

    The news also appeared in today’s La Tribune.

    As with Joon it appears the new CEO is not happy with the Hop! branding “because it confuses long-haul Air France customers – a problem similar to that of Joon.”

    La Tribune reports that “Six years after its launch, Hop is a bitter failure. Of the 100 or so planes operated at the time [when Hop was founded] only about 50 remain. This fleet requires the employment of 800 pilots, which is huge.”

    https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/services/transport-logistique/air-france-la-marque-hop-appelee-a-disparaitre-805631.html


    MarcusGB
    Participant

    And Hop now also!
    Why not just have Air France Cityhopper like KLM, very successful.

    Air France is a mess, and i agree to reel in this multiple Branding, when their original Brand is in poor reputation. They need to repair and consolidate what they have.
    Update the Fleet seating so you do not get 2-3-2 across on one 773, and another 1-2-1!
    Service standards on the ground and in the air, food quality, Lounges, and some form of training for the crew attitudes!

    KLM are a Solid popular World reliable Brand, that are so way ahead. The Crews are always superb in comparison in attitude, effort, and the travel experience.
    They should take good example from them. Schiphol Airport is also more efficient, but aside from that you do not see KLM staff going into Lounges to eat or take drinks out, or slouching at the side of the airport.
    Split the two, to show how each Airline accounts and stands on its own. This does show in the Shareholding results these days, but one Airline should not be feeding off the other!

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