Air France to scrap Joon subsidiary?

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  • capetonianm

    Air France is a mess, ………. They need to repair and consolidate what they have.
    Service standards on the ground and in the air, food quality, Lounges, and some form of training for the crew attitudes!

    KLM are a Solid popular World reliable Brand, that are so way ahead. The Crews are always superb in comparison in attitude, effort, and the travel experience.
    They should take good example from them. Schiphol Airport is also more efficient, but aside from that you do not see KLM staff going into Lounges to eat or take drinks out, or slouching at the side of the airport.

    I have mentioned in other threads that I was involved on the IT side in the AF/KL ‘merger’, I was lucky enough to work for most of the time with the Dutch. The chasm in attitude between the KL people and the AF crowd was enormous and the the distrust and dislike of the Dutch for the French was palpable. Where the Dutch were positive and tried to build bridges, the French were negative and tried to create obstacles and objections all along.


    The French Joon is a flop as can be well said about Transavia. In the AF-KLM group Transavia (Holland) is a success and expanding. The same cannot be said about Transavia(France). If three brands(Joon, Transavia and Hop) fail the French then the management at the top is not very good at running airlines.
    That said then how is AF going to organise its domestic, short-haul and non-Paris flights?


    An interesting debate around about the marketing approach different airlines have adopted, and in this case AF have adopted…….

    I’m assuming that KLM has learnt from its non-sensical branding of Air UK back in the day. To a point !!

    The KLM family V Air France ……..

    Mainline : KLM = AF
    Euro thin: KLM CityHopper = HOP by Air France
    LCC : Transavia =Transavia France

    And in the past memory recalls that Martinair was also a brand of KLM, albeit by acquisition not set up from scratch like Joon !!

    So , I’m afraid the criticism of HOP and AF is IMO unjustified.
    Although JOON, City Express , BritAir and I’m sure I’ve missed other names out, are !!

    I’ll add, that other airlines get criticism on this forum for inconsistent inflight service. In my experience, crews I’ve encountered have always been good, it’s just a shame that the CDG ground crew have such a laissez fare attitude to their customer service facing jobs


    it’s just a shame that the CDG ground crew have such a laissez fare attitude to their customer service facing jobs

    Laissez emmerder would be more appropriate.
    By far the worst thing about travelling AF is CDG. I have had some excellent longhaul flights in C on AF, although I haven’t flown them now for years, only spoilt by the dreadful staff at their main hub.


    Today’s piece written by Mark says Hop! will be branded simply as Air France Hop.

    But it will take some time before the aircraft carry the new livery. After all Air France will be busy repainting its Joon-liveried aircraft.

    Hop! to rebrand as Air France Hop


    There was another KLM subsidiary/franchise in the early 90s, it was called Air Littoral and based in MPL.

    I did some work for them, a really nice bunch of people.


    What a waste of money, if “Air France Hop” is really to be the way they go!
    I wonder how much each aircraft will cost merely to change it round, when “Hop” is simply not understood or valued?

    Perhaps we have missed something with KLM and Air France here, it occurs to me.
    KLM have no domestic routes clearly, with the size of The country and a simply excellent Train system connecting through Schiphol from around the Country.
    I believe on some fares from Belgium, a free train fare is included with KLM tickets.
    KLM’s Regional routes in and out of Europe, where the Brand of KLM is reliable, well regarded, and very good fares feeding the International network through Amsterdam. You could say, that KLM’s success is this, their equivalent of domestic routes are feeding in and out of Europe.

    However, the French TGV System is far more developed and faster, already providing domestic links city to city. I certainly had heard many times, of the domestic and regional flights that ran quiet empty or certainly with little demand, yet they remained. So does France really need such a fleet or services that are not profitable or viable?
    Perhaps the CEO should simply cut the routes that are not viable, have good load factors, or contribute to feeding The Hub. We know there is a Nationalistic feeling about AF running flights domestic wise.
    Certainly a low cost carrier would not run them point to point if they were not profitable.

    Here is an article about the growth and record passengers carried in 2018…

    I know Senior staff within KLM, and Schiphol Airport.
    Patience is wearing very thin with The French side, the cuts of one or two crew from each flight has bitten in, and removal of a Junior Purser from Long haul flights now.
    they feel they have done enough, they are tired, overworked, and make all the suggestions, sacrifices and profits. Some staff there for years, really cannot wait to leave!

    Quarterly results are very positive, but other breakdowns show KLm makes double the profit of AF and has a higher load factor.
    Here are the 3rd 1/4 results, with the 2018 financial year results, due in a few days.

    The AF/KLM Share price have been up around 16%+ since the beginning of the year.
    Yet there has been no dividend paid to Shareholders since 2007/8, and patience in them is wearing thin!
    This needs to recommence this year we hope, and then confidence will lift even more in The Group, subject to internal damage from staff disputes!

    Good to see that AF is really being shaken up eventually, a more Independent mind with the CEO, objectively trying to put things right.

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