[Bucksnet]

LP, you are missing the point, so maybe you should watch the video again. Of course Type 21 and other diesel powered subs have to use their batteries to dive and operate submerged, the point was that the sub in question had buoyancy issues. If you disagree, then where do you think the diesel came from?

I said at the time, and should have posted so on here, that there were Brazilian Navy reports of diesel fuel on the surface, and the stupid media reported it as fuel from the plane. I know the media make a lot of mistakes when reporting aviation matters, but how stupid do you have to be? Planes do not run on diesel, so straight away you have to ask yourself where has it come from?

[canucklad]

Bucksnet…I enjoy a conspiracy theory and admit that we in the general populas probably have the wool pulled over our eyes more often than we think…however in this i think its disrespectful to the bereaved families !

I might also add that your inlelligence informant is supposed to keep his trap shut ……and. what navy did this submarine belong too?
On the point of diesel fuel..you will find all sorts of pollution in our sea’s…the vast majority from the merchant fleets!!

After a cursory glance at the report, i would suggest responsibility for the disaster in the following order…

1) Thales… Making sub standard pitot tubes

2) AF for purchasing and not replacing sub standard pitot tubes (As i mentioned earlier-CX and Dragonair flight crew pretty much assumed the reason for the crash just after it happened!..AF’s reputation for buying parts on the cheap well known within the industry ! )

3) Airbus for the removal of their joy sticks!

4) AF & Airbus for lack of training on “flying and feeling the aircraft” ….Interestingly my mate prefers the 777 than the 340 !

5) And this can only be assumed…The pilots for sticking rigidly to protocol ! the best skill aviators should have is gut instinct!

[Vertrek]

Canucklad,

Instinct? I think under that extreme condition where all of the equipment failed one by one.. Without the ability to know that the pitot tube were frozen, panicing is only human. Unlike the BA incident in LHR where they know the exact problem which is only the wheels, AF incident not only lost contact, they were also in extreme condition.

CX pilots comment is not a valid one, most probably they herd only rumors.

Furthermore, for the French to stick with Airbus is reasonable considering Airbus is French company. Look at those US big legacy airlines with Boeing. As an European citizen, I am pro-Airbus and prefer them to Boeing. Especially A380, nothing can beat that beautiful and quiet Whale of the sky.

But, I do agree that it wa te management fault not to changed all of the pitot tube faster.

And I will still keep Bucksnet theory open minded.

[Bucksnet]

Any conspiracy theory would be why it was shot down, what was the reason, any important passengers onboard, who ordered it etc. The actual event itself is not a conspiracy theory as such, but what was behind it.

What is disrespectful to the bereaved families is not telling them the truth and coming up with all sorts of cover stories, especially regarding the flight crew who have done nothing wrong.

The Type 21 sub did not belong to any navy but to the DVD, who supply them to the Iranians and others, as well as using them themselves.

There is all sorts of pollution in the seas of course, but this was a large concentration of diesel in the exact area. It’s not a coincidence it was there!

[canucklad]

Vertrek…. apologies if you’ve misinterpreted my message…to clarify my point.. the reason why i placed the actions of the crew at the bottom of the list is because we just don’t know what was going on…my point was linked to the comment about the reliance on the flight director system.

I will still stand by my CX comment…i’m sure that it wasn’t just HK based pilots that were summasing about the reasons for the crash.

Again to re-iterate one of their comments ” we might have issues, but at least they pay for top grade components for our aircraft blah,blah etc…” These guys fly the 330

These comments were made shortly after the incident…and i will ask you how close did they get with their summastions!

[canucklad]

And to Bucksnet……I agree that if it’s true then the families deserve to be told the truth!

And as i’ve already mentioned the whole attempt to blame the flight crew isn’t disrespectful , it’s far worse than that !

I take it the DVD is a sort of miltary hardware wholesaler?

As a by the by…just checked google and there are another 15 “alternative” reasons for the crash !

[Bucksnet]

The attempt to blame the flight crew is far worse than disrespectful I agree.

The DVD is the German secret service, the head of which until his death in the 1970s was a navy admiral. They use old but refitted Type 21 subs for all sorts of missions.

One of the ways of covering things up is to put out all types of stories, and then you will have the usual nutters adding to them as well. It just muddies the waters so to speak. The internet is actually a godsend in that respect. When the truth starts to surface it just appears to be another conspiracy theory.

[craigwatson]

sorry my take would be;

Pilot error first and foremost, an unreliable airspeed indication should NOT be beyond the capabilities of the flight crew. Right from the first indication of an abnormality they kept making the problem worse and worse.

Should there have been better training.. yes
Should the pitot’s have been replaced…yes
Should the ergonomics of the Airbus be redesigned… not sure, maybe (dont fly airbus)

Bucksnet – ever heard of Occam’s razor?

[VoyageVoyage]

Looking at the report, it clearly states that the accident came from the pilots not being able to react, as well as their lack of training, and also the pitot tubes that were clearly frozen, preventing the crew to get essential information.

Air France is not denying the report and it shows they will take this into account.

This was a tragic accident where all the passengers died, but AF + Airbus need to learn from this. And they will, I am sure.

[craigwatson]

“pitot tubes that were clearly frozen” or otherwise known as “UAS” happens all the time all over the world, and you dont see aircraft falling out of the skies because of it. It played a roll in the accident but not the main one. When in a UAS situation you set a proscribed pitch and power setting until the problem resolves itself

[Bucksnet]

It does not really matter if the pitot tube works or not. The GPS can tell you not only your exact location, but also your height and speed. The one in my car does that, and I’m sure the ones in commercial airliners are at least as good, probably better in fact.

[Bucksnet]

Dr. Guy Gratton, an aviation expert from the Flight Safety Laboratory at Brunel University, said “This is an air accident the like of which we haven’t seen before. Put bluntly, big passenger planes do not just fall out of the sky.”

No s**t Sherlock! I wish I had happened upon this quote before. I seem to remember in a previous post where I said “planes don’t just fall from the sky” and someone replied “yes they do”. Well this aviation expert knows more than me.

[craigwatson]

a bit misleading Bucks. He said this “This is an air accident the like of which we haven’t seen before.” Half the accident investigators in the western world – and russia too – are waiting for these results. This has been the biggest investigation since Lockerbie. “Put bluntly, big passenger planes do not just fall out of the sky.”

Basically he said this before the investigation had produced any results and he was merely stating that there would be a reason found in the investigation, because as he said “Put bluntly, big passenger planes do not just fall out of the sky.”

Just like conspiracy theorists to twist facts to suit there purpose and agenda

[capetonianm]

“It does not really matter if the pitot tube works or not.”

Sorry but that displays a lack of understanding. The pitot tube is essential to show the attitude of the aircraft in the air, and whilst one might imagine that electronics might do that, they get their information from …….. you guessed it ……. the pitot tubes! Location, height and speed are indeed supplied but the aircraft’s attitude is critical.

[craigwatson]

Sorry, Capetonian but you are also incorrect. The pitot tube does not show the attitude of the aircraft. There are numerous different attitude displays, and in the case of AF447, there was no indication that they were not working correctly, they were just ignored! I think you are getting confused between the pitot tube ( which iced up ) and the pitot-static tube and the static source, which didnt freeze up

[Author]

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