[x2000traveller]

In reply to: Business Class catering on short haul flights within europe.

J class intra-Europe seems mostly to be about connections, more space and first off the aircraft (if that’s what you are interested in). Catering doesn’t seem to be rated that highly by many passengers these days (indeed, quite a few pass on the meal offer in my experience), so airlines put less effort into it. As you have found out. However, even I was somewhat appalled to be served tea in a paper cup rather than a china one in Club Europea on what was formerly ‘The World’s Favourite Airline’ last month!

As many of you know I do enjoy the analytics of identifying which routes airlines evaluate and what they eventually choose – especially from London where slots are supposedly limited, a recent example being what Virgin Atlantic might chose now that they are joining Skyteam and have also obtained slots from KLM.

Over the years I have started a few discussions looking at what long haul routes BA might examine, but not actually had one of these in a while with Covid etc, so think now is the time to start another one!

In the last years there have been many major developments impacting BA – Brexit, Covid – resulting in the total withdrawal of their 747 fleet and of course many markets closed due to travel restrictions (Asia), War in Ukraine, impacting on flying over Russia, and in recent months market turmoil in the Uk, much reducing the value of the Pound and also reduced disposable income for many.

So where now that things are (fingers crossed) opening up do you think BA would be wise to be looking at from either LHR or LGW? Where are the opportunities for current market and the next 2-3 years?

Routes from the regions are very, very unlikely so please keep your suggestions to London.

Of course many routes have stopped – but could some come back? Suspended routes include Osaka, Seoul, KL, Muscat, Durban, Abu Dhabi and Damman.

Indeed with Brexit (not making a political point, but now not being able to recruit from a wider labour market, and IMO reckless job losses when Covid arrived and according to some seen as not being a desirable employer, with BA still being short staffed, CAN they actually really expand?

For example I was told by a savvy airline expert recently that BA does actually fly to Bangkok these days, but cargo only in the hold as they do not have the 14-16 crew needed to operate each wide-bodied flight.

And now that the Pound is much weaker versus the US Dollar, how will this impact on the allocation of aircraft, routes and crew? For example I see much less Orlando and Las Vegas flights, which are mainly UK point of sale markets.

Anyway, here are some of my thoughts to get the discussion started:-

US

Kansas (mooted before and I found the analytics very persuasive) – 4 x 788 per week ex LHR
Indianapolis – officially mentioned by BA before Covid – 4 x 788 per week ex LHR
Outside bets – St Louis (former BCal/TWA/AA route) or Cincinatti (Delta flew this years ago from LGW I recall and a pharmaceutical centre).

longer shot – Albuquerque, NM

Central/South America/Caribbean

A big recent development is that the UK no longer needs nationals of Ecuador, Peru and Colombia to have a visa to enter the UK. This I think will really make a difference to demand. And given IMO a market which can support both Avianca and BA think Bogota is low hanging fruit.

Also pre-pandemic BA had started a route using 772 to Lima from LGW. Personally I think that was a lot of capacity and from the wrong airport, so I think there should be a tag flight (I know some of you do not get the benefits of these flights!). I suggest a LHR-Bogota-Lima -Bogota-LHR flight using 3 class 772 and crew resting in BOG – perhaps starting 3-4 times a week. At least try this and see how the markets prosper – perhaps Lima can have its own nonstop again after all.

Ecuador I do not think can justify a route yet and so Iberia can cover that, but I do think BOG and LIM can do very well for business, leisure and VFR traffic.

Panama City I have always mentioned. At least 4 weekly 788.

Brazil I do not think BA will go further into as I think Virgin will strike a deal with Latam.

BA have already announced new routes to Guyana and Aruba from LGW, but given many Caribbean currencies are pegged to the USD do not see much additional capacity being on offer, and of anything reductions, and allocating the resources to cheaper leisure markets.

Africa

I really think BA have missed many opportunities here, and think overall they will not give this continent much attention, but with Rwandair thinking to join Oneworld, a route their to connect to their growing hub, or at least a code-share, will be a great opportunity to benefit from their network in East, Central and Southern Africa.

I saw that BA is reducing Nairobi from 772 to 788 and wonder with VS joining Skyteam BA are anticipating more co-operation between VS and Kenya Airways.

But in the recent Virgin route thread a poster I always find insightful suggested Kinshasa, having seen substantial traffic from the UK there, so given that a few years ago BA had a very profitable route into Luanda, but suspended this when the oil price crashed, I think a triangle route could be very rewarding indeed:-

LHR-Luanda -Kinshasa-LHR 772 3x weekly.

Sharm-el Sheikh – Years ago BA operated 772 from LGW there – with beach holidays in the Americas becoming arguably more expensive, could this be a worth looking at reviving?

Asia

Asia is hard to plan for with some markets needing to fly over Russia and of course China is not very open yet. I see VS could tap into some markets here in conjunction with Skyteam partners, but do think BA should go back to BKK and also try a Phuket route. These markets would capture a premium leisure perhaps finding the Caribbean or Indian Ocean too expensive now. I think direct flights would prosper as I think many do not want to go via the Gulf on QR or EK etc.

So BKK daily with 789 and Phuket 3 x weekly on 788.
I hope KUL also comes back.

Another factor not covered much above is VFR traffic – Virgin have really tapped into Pakistan and doing very well there. Are there other markets you think should be tapped into?

I look forward to your thoughts on which routes you think could be lucrative or at least worth evaluating, and of course any insight or believable rumours!

7 users thanked author for this post.

cwoodward, GivingupBA, TimFitzgeraldTC, dutchyankee, MartynSinclair, onajetplane, Tom Otley

[AMcWhirter]

In reply to: Our heads in the sand?

[postquote quote=1233705]

Yes I covered the subject of how airlines avoid Russian airspace back in March 2022.

Make an online search for “How airlines are avoiding Russian airspace.”

JAL returned to London around that time. ANA restarted its London flights last July.

BA will resume Tokyo Haneda next week as we have already reported.

What I find interesting is that Tokyo-London flights take a northerly routing over Alaska but route London-Tokyo using a southerly track over Kazakhstan and then across mainland China to Japan. This adds another two to three hours to the elapsed flight time depending on weather conditions along the way.

[TonyR]

In reply to: Which Airlines are you using

I was Gold tier at Virgin for many years and their routes suited my destinations at the time. But then had some bad customer service experiences with them so switched to BA and Gold status there. Currently hold Gold with both but doubt it will last long with either now. Virgin has dropped most of its Far East routes – Japan 5 years ago and now Hong Kong meaning the earning opportunities are much fewer for me and BA is currently not flying there either. So ANA and JAL, which I haven’t flown for 30 years, are the only options to Japan currently. That enforced use of other airlines, the bars on travel and flights to e.g. China, the easiness of Zoom to replace many trips and the difficulty redeeming points means the opportunity to maintain status becomes nigh on impossible so there is no longer any benefit in airline loyalty – at least not for me. Fortunately I am able to travel mainly business class which means you already get most of the perks of loyalty cards such as check-ins and lounges although how much longer that will last with current fares is unclear.

[cwoodward]

In reply to: HK continues to sink

Martyn
Thanks for your usual intelligent response to my post.

I will try to answer a couple of your questions with what is my own interpretation, published stats and info from HK friends:

1. Clearly you feel that those traveling are locals and students. Of course the rump of those traveling in and out of HK will always be locals and I would have agreed with your summary a couple of months back however in the past weeks there have weekley been significant increases in business travellers. Also there is fast increasing business traffic both in and out of China as the mainland has quietly made it easier for business people to travel abroad. Flights and pax to and from China to HK would have undoubtedly increased significantly recently. Also nd very pleasingly there is a not an insignificant flow of former residents returning and others taking up new jobs here (an international school that all of my boys attend(ed) has found half a dozen new staff from NZ and AU in the past weeks 3 of which are returnees and we have let a flat to UK lawyer who has arrived with family to to take up a position here. Small beginnings but it is happening all- be- it too slowly.

2. There are those (self included) who believe that we are close to the lifting of restrictions and have endured multiple quarantines in order to continue to operate. A good friend and director of a large international British bank has been in and out 6 or 7 times during the past 2.5 years.

3. The flight stats that I quoted do not include any freighter only operations and these are roughly equal in number to the pax operations quoted.
Some airlines including CX have taken a portion of seats out of A330s and 777s to accommodate more freight as well as pax…….and so combi operations. These flights are probably included in the passenger stats as they pull up to the pax terminal. There would I estimate be only 2 or 3 a day.
The BA operation is interesting as there are as you mention 2 or 3 BA flights a day. They pull up to the pax terminal and people that I know at the airport swear that they disembark passengers as well as freight – only a few but defiantly what appear to be normal passengers -odd

As you say the lifting of restrictions are the key to a full revival and the demands for this from business and the general population are now deafening and increasing by the day. Clearly the CE wants to move quickly forward but is needing to work through the many layers of resistance to achieve this.

It will happen soon because it must or Hong Kong as a business and focal hub will be lost.
The vultures from Singapore have been circling now for some time and the US administration is increasingly putting the boot in as often as they are able although their business community are largely supportive of HK.

1 user thanked author for this post.

TupeloKid

Appreciate that there are more serious issues re the queen but equally as she helped HK, it is sad to watch it going further into decline and no travel.

Bidding started for quarantine hotels until next feb – a bad sign and shows maybe rugby 7s and business conference will not happen.

Apparently at least 45 airlines no longer fly to HK

The director general of the International Air Transport Association (IATA), Willie Walsh, on Wednesday said it was “disappointing” to see how the city’s pandemic-related travel curbs had continued to restrict flights into Hong Kong.
“I can’t see many airlines returning while the uncertainty continues, and committing capacity in an environment where capacity is still constrained would be a difficult decision for many airlines,” he said during a media briefing.

Walsh explained that while Hong Kong was still a critical aviation centre in the region, a lot of activity had now gone to other restriction-free hubs.
“I think it will take some time for Hong Kong to recover,” he said.
Singapore’s Changi Airport has emerged as the region’s leader in terms of international passenger traffic for the second quarter of this year, with Hong Kong not even making the top 10.

I think HK has accepted living with COVID as few care unlike China but these ridiculous policies are creating so many issues.

2 users thanked author for this post.

vietnamtrips, Kjell

[AMcWhirter]

In reply to: BOAC’s B747 in 1971 (historical video)

[quote quote=1230272]That brings back some memories! The only time I flew a -200 on the upper deck was one of the Taiwanese airlines (China Airlines, I think)[/quote]

Must have been CAL (China Airlines).

I say that because by the time its rival Eva Air appeared on the scene it was the age of the 747-400 which lacked the spiral staircase.

[Mark]

In reply to: BOAC’s B747 in 1971 (historical video)

IanFromHKG wrote

That brings back some memories! The only time I flew a -200 on the upper deck was one of the Taiwanese airlines (China Airlines, I think) and I well remember the spiral staircase. I was in the front row and they had triangular cross-section footrest cushions (funny the details you remember).

Remember Virgin had these in their PY cabin front row and the economy bulk head If I recall correctly.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Bullfrog

[IanFromHKG]

In reply to: BOAC’s B747 in 1971 (historical video)

That brings back some memories! The only time I flew a -200 on the upper deck was one of the Taiwanese airlines (China Airlines, I think) and I well remember the spiral staircase. I was in the front row and they had triangular cross-section footrest cushions (funny the details you remember).

The flipover projector screen and incredibly uncomfortable stethoscope headphones mentioned by Alex were, of course, featured on many aircraft. I also remember the clunky rotary dials in the seat to change audio channels.

When our darling Offspring were young there was no such thing as video-on-demand or individual screens – indeed I remember the luxury of flying BA in F and getting a choice of little mini-videocassettes (featured in one of the early Mission Impossible films) which was as close as anyone got in those days, albeit on a tiny video screen. And then, many many years later, flying J on BA from Mumbai to London and discovering, to my complete horror, that there was no v-o-d and thinking I had gone back to the dark ages (the service was shite too). Mind you, when the meal service (finally) started and I turned on the video system and realised I had a very limited range of options of things to watch, all of which had already started, I randomly picked Hysteria and ended up nearly wetting myself laughing.

We must have been one of the earliest adopters of portable DVD players – I remember taking Senior Offspring to Australia and Bali and while having drinks in the hotel lounges adults and children alike would cluster around – the latter just wanting to watch and the former plying us with questions about cost and availability because they were such a novelty. Those things were lifesavers and of course could be used on planes in those days. How times have changed!

2 users thanked author for this post.

esselle, GivingupBA

[cwoodward]

In reply to: Taiwan braced for China blockade

Normally CX fly to Taipei up to 12 times a day and China Airlines and the other Taiwanese carriers about the same. These flights are still running but nothing from CX thus it looks that overnight Beijing have stopped Cathay flying the route for the next couple of days.

[AMcWhirter]

In reply to: Taiwan braced for China blockade

I sincerely hope there is a resolution soon.

I was listening to BBC World Service this evening and it mentioned there had been flight cancellations.

Checking online I saw many reports.

https://apnews.com/article/taiwan-china-asia-beijing-hong-kong-48d38b2f1af175c5e25bb98d1a64be00

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/taiwan-cancels-flights-as-china-holds-military-drills/2022/08/04/8115f168-13d0-11ed-8482-06c1c84ce8f2_story.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-warn-airlines-avoid-airspace-near-taiwan-pelosi-visit-military-2022-8?r=US&IR=T

[paywall for Flightglobal]

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-transport/china-military-drills-off-taiwan-prompts-flight-rerouting-cancellations/149738.article

[cwoodward]

In reply to: Taiwan braced for China blockade

The normal brigade of local Cathay and China airlines are flying back and forth between HK and Taipei more or las as usual today and I would not expect that to change a lot. The columns of freighters from North America are flying their normal routes through the straits between Taiwan and mainland China down the South China Sea to Hong Kong and the civilian air traffic between the protagonists to and from Taipei appears more or less normal.

In my view nothing more than a bit of foot stamping by a rather frustrated Beijing government that will likely pass in a few days.

2 users thanked author for this post.

DerekVH, AMcWhirter

[christ]

In reply to: 3rd Runway opens at Hong Kong airport

cwoodward – BA (or Virgin) have not flown to Hong Kong for months with passenger operation. The earliest flights that can be booked are the winter with the first flight being sunday 30 October (although not many expect it will happen). I believe Virgin may start earlier.

There are no United or American flights and so i have no idea where you got that from – “American Airlines back today”. It is clearly stated that American will not return this year.

Qantas also does not resume until late October at the earliest.

Cathay flies daily to London and 3 or 4 times a week to US (3 or 4 cities and so effectively 12).

I only hope quarantine does disappear but with zero covid policy of China, I am not so sure.

I think BA may run cargo flights to HK via Bangkok but I could be wrong.

[Woodpecker]

In reply to: 3rd Runway opens at Hong Kong airport

The only hurdle holding back HKG from a speedier recovery is the compulsory quarantine for incoming passengers and/or closed loop requirements for crew. The day this is removed – and it is only a matter of time – airlines will come flooding back. HKG is too lucrative a region to be given up on.

Conventional wisdom in stock markets say to buy when the chips are down. Using the same analogy, investment now in the third runway, revamp of Terminal 2 plus an extra mid field concourse – all of which is scheduled to be completed by 2024, will be the foundation for long term growth.

Pre covid HKG was almost bursting at the seams, it is highly likely that the day China opens up again HKG traffic will get back to the same level. Which is when all the new infrastructure will pay dividends.

2 users thanked author for this post.

FormerBA, cwoodward

[AMcWhirter]

In reply to: Does Finnair have a Customer Service Department?

Hello Big Al65 – Thanks for clarifying. I saw from your original posting that you mentioned “key issues between February and May.”

I am glad the flights were satisfactory and am sorry you suffered this inconvenience.

There is no indication when or even if Russia will restore these overflying rights to (most) foreign airlines.

Now that Finland and Sweden are poised to join NATO there could be an even longer delay.

If you look at the Finnair long-haul network you will see that the vast majority of Finnair’s long-haul routes used to overfly Russia.

Indeed in 1988 Finnair became the first airline to operate non-stop between Europe and Beijing overflying USSR/Mongolia/China. (Yes I realise Finland is a Nordic country but it would offer connections from all over Europe)

This was a revolution.

It meant that a flight HEL-PEK took around eight hours which was a substantial reduction on former multi-stop services via the southern routes.

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Big Al 65