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  • AMcWhirter
    Participant

    This airline, which used to fly Brussels-Hong Kong in 2018, and had high hopes of operating to China will no longer operate scheduled passenger flights from October 3.

    Currently most of Air Belgium’s scheduled flights include those serving Africa.

    Air Belgium is cancelling all scheduled passenger flights to focus on ACMI and freight


    cwoodward
    Participant

    The Australian Consumer watchdog issued a draft determination today that will block the agreement between Qantas, and its subsidiary Jetstar, and China Eastern Airlines that enabled the two airlines to coordinate operations between Australia and China.
    The ACCC believes that the agreement breaches Australian competition laws.

    ACCC commissioner Anna Brakey said ‘China Eastern is the only airline flying direct between Sydney and Shanghai. We are not satisfied that the likely harm to competition from Qantas and China Eastern’s proposed coordination would be outweighed by any potential benefits’.

    ‘We are concerned that the authorisation would provide Qantas and China Eastern with the opportunity and incentive to increase prices’ Also would limit or delay the introduction of additional capacity (from other airlines) on the Sydney-Shanghai route as passenger demand continues to grow as Chinese tour groups return to the country’.


    cwoodward
    Participant

    Any Covid protocols are gone other than those that you mention – certainly in major centers it is no longer a big deal (it was).

    I have not flown much with them in the past 3 years of course(twice -one trip)
    China Southern has come a long way in passenger comfort and service the past 10 years -and they needed to.

    Major airports are a good standard -English signage- busy but operate well -not at all friendly Tips – find a lounge and /or a good book otherwise 6 hours is going to drag unless you have a fair understanding of written and spoken Mandarin or Cantonese

    It’s a huge fleet but youngish and the business cabins are comfortable -but often a very different layout in business but its not flash -very tight in economy. Long- haul the crew should have reasonable English – short haul often not.
    Service is just there and OK (think budget airline) food reasonable -wine often not worth the effort.

    They would be low on my list but OK although I much prefer Air China of the Chinese airlines -better food and service -more international feel -some crew are trained by Cathay.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    Rferguson2
    Participant

    Hi folks,

    Just wondering if anyone has recent experience of China Southern Business Class, or current COVID transit requirements in China – or both? :-))

    Airfares from the UK to Australia are absurdly high at the moment and I managed to nab a business class ticket from AMS to MEL via CAN for £2.5k return which is quite reasonable considering return economy fares from LON are around the £1.5k mark at the moment.

    I have done my usual, googling and youtubing for up to date business reviews of China Southern which has not returned a whole lot. Considering China Southern is the biggest airline in Asia (a fact I was surprised to stumble upon) the lack of reviews was strange. Although I guess CZ primarily targets customers in their home market.

    Just curious what the experience will be like and whether other forumites have any tips. I am expecting the whole service offering to be very targeted to the Chinese market and have never flown a mainland carrier so am excited at the opportunity. What is CAN airport like, the lounge etc?

    Also, has anyone transited via China recently? I am trying to work out the most recent transit requirements (we will have around 6hr airside) which is no easy task. I see there is a health declaration to complete online, and a requirement to self COVID test (although the airline apparently doesn’t check this before travel) but then I have read on other forums the health declaration isn’t required for airside transit.

    Any info would be welcome 🙂


    cwoodward
    Participant

    In reply to: OAG data

    I don’t altogether agree with your surmation Andrew. There is a decent report on the Government website that outlines in some detail the facts. The low from the mainland can be expected to have increased this year given that there was almost none for the last several years given government restrictions.The ‘high levels’ of youth unemployment that you mention are a comparison to where please – not the UK surely?
    I have been very fortunate to visit a good number of what you broadly describe as ‘better’ restaurants over the past few weeks including the Mandarin Grill,Lobster bar at the Island Shang, Sabatini all were full at about 8.00 pm on various weekday evenings We tried to book at our two favourite places Aaharn and The Chinnary for a Thursday evening over a week in advance neither was available. Certainly some restaurants are struggling but that has always been the case in fast paced HK where places that are not on top of their game are quickly replaced.
    A quick look at long-haul airline loading both in and out of HK shows that there is high occupancy with many major airlines placing large aircraft on the route Most certainly Hong Kong is not back to pre pandemic levels nor of course is China but as already shown the naysayers who predicted the demise of Hong Kong, its airlines,hotels and tourist industry and the dwindling of its population have been proved to be somewhat premature (actually wrong on all counts)


    christ
    Participant

    Unfortunately Cathay again is 30% premium and the later flights returning to HK seem to mostly be 777 with regional seating.

    HK airlines on the A330 with flat bed is HKD 3,880 (but too early return flight as just one a day, allbeit some days there are two). China airlines which i know nothing about is $5,800 with many flights and some are flat beds on a A321 which sounds unusual. Eva is same price but on a mix of 787 – 10 and 777 with flat bed, but there is one on a A321 with standard seat. Cathay, every flight is $10,700 but with the best frequency by far and does fly a lot of A350s it seems but also mixed in with the 777 regional relics and the odd A321 neo.

    However Eva does seem to use the Plaza lounge at HK which will be extremely disappointing v the the Cathay or Qantas lounges at HK. Cathay has its own lounge at Taiwan and one would hope Eva is better at its home but the Eva one does not look good from photos (I assume HK airlines use this also).

    Cathay and followed by China airlines do seem to be the dominant carriers on this route.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    I tried them once at the behest of a Taiwanese client with whom I was travelling. Four years ago

    I found nothing that was not reasonabely decent and clean but it was all rather ordinary. The cabin crew efficient but but not at all attentive and their English not too good .The food was ordinary as was the seat.
    It became clearly understandable to me why more customers on this short route fly with Cathay (China Airlines I have not tried for very many years) and continue onward with them from HK.


    TominScotland
    Participant

    cwoodward, given that Air China has a 29.99% stake in CX, it is perhaps a little naïve to suggest that Cathay Pacific operates without government ‘oversight’ if not direct, operational control. Tamasek Holdings (a state agency) has a controlling 53.5% stake in Singapore Airlines.


    cwoodward
    Participant

    Hong Kong would I believe benefit from another (viable) local airline and perhaps Hong Kong Airlines will succeed this time around but
    to be honest I have doubts as to the likelihood given that they have always been loss making and the ownership is hundreds of millions in debt from other reclass failed airline ventures.
    Perhaps Greater Bay Airlines is the one that will become the competitor to Cathay Pacific but that star seems to have also faded since the driving force lost interest and entered HK politics as a legislator.

    Any entity wishing to establish a viable airline in Hong Kong will need deep unencumbered pockets, in depth experience and the ability to fight hard for market share over a long period.
    Many in the past of tried but come up short. Qantas also tried very hard a few years but failed to get off the ground !

    Given the substantial and long standing cross shareholding between Air China and Cathay I don’t believe that pressure or assistance will applied by the China government at least for the foreseeable future.
    I have often wondered if Singapore airlines would put together a consortium but it seems that they are happy with the status quo.

    2 users thanked author for this post.

    Inquisitive
    Participant

    Agree that SQ experiment of cardboard box meal delivery is being complained by many passengers, including myself – I had those a couple of time SIN-BKK just to taste – as I have higher status, normally for short haul I eat at lounge. But the cardboard box delivery is a cost efficiency exercise although SQ claim it is environmentally friendly effort.
    Before Covid, SQ will have proper cutlery on that route and I think now that is restored in all flights. My recent 3 hourish flights from China had full fledged meal service.

    However I am impressed how some Indian and Chinese airlines manage to do a full service in domestic flights with short duration.
    Moment seat belt sign is off (around 10 min mark) crew start serving from both ends of A320 or B737 and they complete meal serving at at around 25 min mark. They will come back for hot drinks if that is not served due to minor turbulence. At about 35 minutes mark, they start collecting refuse from both sides again and the whole process is complete by 40-45 minutes mark (that is descending start for one hour flight). If some passengers could not finish their meals, the crew comes back after 5 minutes. During this time the crews also accommodate passengers who wants to go to toilet.

    It is a question of training and discipline. Some might find these services are very mechanical but for those who want a meal in the plane even for just time pass, this is quite good.
    I believe serving meal keep the stress level down and due to time pass element, may eliminate air-rage that we see time to time.

    4 users thanked author for this post.

    Inquisitive
    Participant

    There are several domestic airlines in India and China and some airlines in SE Asia serves not only hot tea or coffee, also provides reasonably good meal services in flights with about one hour or so duration.
    I do not see any higher number of crews in these airlines than required by regulations.
    So if BA is really interested to serve tea and coffee on short haul flights, they can send their crew and management to good airlines in Asia for training/learning on this service.
    It boils down to intention of providing good service.

    6 users thanked author for this post.

    cwoodward
    Participant

    In reply to: Hong Kong Airlines

    Yes it is small when you consider that now 5 of the operating aircraft are freighters.

    Of course there is still a push from the southern mainland provinces that want to be rid of Cathay hence Greater Bay Airlines which in their pre launch blurb were gong to be ‘twice the size of Cathay’…..they seem to have run out of both ambition and funding though.
    I suspect that Beijing did not support the project given that Air China owns a chunk of Cathay and v.v. Also the partners equally own a large and growing freighter business

    It would however I feel be healthy to have a second viable true Hong Kong airline if only to “keep the b——s (Cathay) honest” although several have tried and all have failed or been swallowed.


    cwoodward
    Participant

    Cathay of course needs to avoid risking a situation where it employs cabin crew from China who’s command of conversational English is not proficient enough to be able serve the majority of its passengers properly or worse becomes frustrated.

    I have had a business in China for the past over 30 years and our more educated and senior staff speak English very well indeed however go along to a government office, a shop, a restaurant or fly internally with a mainland based airline and the standard of English (if any)is poor.

    Possibly Cathay can tempt cabin crew from that fly internationally with Chinese airlines or maybe draw on some of Air China’s English speaking crew (Cathay owns a large chunk of the airline and trains some Air China crew) as well as the perhaps the easier option of more crew ex Singapore and Taiwan.

    1 user thanked author for this post.

    MarcusGB
    Participant

    I do enjoy the a350, but again it depends on the Airline, cabin and seat designs.

    The new Air France cabin looks very smart and clever, privacy doors, if not a little clinical perhaps in colour?
    on most A350’s, I do find the “Car seat belt” uncomfortable, as it locks and stops your normal movement even leaning forwards to pick something up, and it cuts into your shoulder.

    My best experience was about 2018/19, had to choose China Airlines to Australia, as it was a last minute need to be in there for an invited ceremonial event. All Airlines were 3 x the normal price, but still at an amazing £1,800 return then, and plenty seats on China Airlines, but ex Amsterdam.

    Their A350 Business class was simply beautiful, along with a deep comforting warm use of colours, and a more gentle yellowish table lamp, it felt like i was sitting in a lounge not on an aircraft.
    I was very surprised to see so many of their A350s compared to other Airlines in TPE then, at least 15 i counted all incoming or outgoing.
    With the incoming flight from Amsterdam an hr late, a mad dash and the door being closed behind me, It was wonderful to see only 6 people in the Sydney bound whole Business cabin!
    That was a real treat to have no crowds or moving around, toilet anticipations, and a very personal cabin service.

    I caught sight of their very pristine comfy Premium Economy in the cabin behind, which looked excellent, almost empty also.

    Some photos on this review…

    https://www.executivetraveller.com/china-airlines-airbus-a350-business-class-review-brisbane-taipei-london-gatwick-bne-tpe-lgw

    I have also flown A350 Biz on SQ, Thai, AF with (the original design cabin and seats), but design of the best cabin and seat comfort was certainly China Airlines.
    I would not be choosing an Airline that packed people in, or had 2-2-2 as a Biz Cabin.

    Sadly KLM still have 2-2-2 on their 777 fleet. Swiss have 5 across, and many LH cabins, still 2-2-2.
    Since Covid, i think Biz Cabins really have equaled that of First class now.
    If you compare Thai 1st class, an A350 current Business cabin exceeds that.

    Personally my expectations are for the 1-2-1 which the A350 has, with the added space of a large aircraft.

    Again the Dreamliners are great, but only if 1-2-1 in a Business class cabin, and i prefer the room of the larger 787-9/10.


    MarcusGB
    Participant

    Sydney has been in a downward spiral for many years now. I had lived n worked there and travel back to Oz a few times a year since.
    Many friends and colleagues have moved away to Melbourne, or up to Queensland and around, to a better, less overpriced, congested life. Many European family Generations are gone from the City, pushed out by residence and shop space prices.Roads are clogged more tunnels go under and around, and the return of the trams has pedestrianised part of the centre.

    Thai has started 2 x daily flights into MEL on A350’s, but only 1 x 773 !nto Sydney.
    I see far less International traffic, or Airlines with once a day flights now rather than numerous, and the use of smaller Aircraft.

    So many high rise apartments for residence or travellers, that when everyone comes out, the city has no space left anymore.
    The “Australian” fusion foods have gone, and more traditional places pushed out, “China Town” is half the city now. There is not a blend of cultures that existed before. its is V expensive.

    Melbourne is Less high rise, but sprawling suburbs full of flat buildings, full of character, cafe and food culture, arts, theatre, a more serious city.
    (Moonie Ponds does exist, but sadly its most famous resident, Dame Edna Everage, has passed!)

    There are better cities than Sydney these days to explore, so i am not surprised of the Airlines picking up on this.
    MEL – SYD (i think) was the most busy Airline for a domestic route Worldwide?
    Pre Covid, 4 domestic Airlines ran flights as often as every 15 mins between cities each, at peak times. It was a tough job to find the right airlines and not be boarding the flight 15 mins before or after the one you booked!
    Gone are the days when the larger Aircraft would take more people less often, they are all 737 variants!
    If MEL has lots of gates free it would be due to less Domestic flights, not just International Airlines.

    Clever International Airlines would take in both cities as Emirates did, or going onto NZ, or on to Pacific destinations.
    But they boxed in Air New Zealand, who are now beginning again to expand and thrive also.
    Domestic Fares remain high priced, with few other options due to distance and no real rail links outside a city, or good Road options.

    For sure, there needs to be a re-think about dispersing to other cities the International flights into Australia – and NZ or Onto the Pacific even, as they continue to return.

    4 users thanked author for this post.
Viewing 15 results - 31 through 45 (of 1,089 total)
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