[Travellator]

And Amman ?

[rferguson]

CAI is moving to T1. And Freetown from T1 to T5 from the schedule change at end of OCT.

Reading between the lines i’d say CAI will go on the A321 and Freetown will go on the 767 (which has been the rumour for a while).

Travelator BA are also ‘launching’ daily Amman from T1 from Oct 28th so looks like this will be a CW A321 contender as well.

[rferguson]

Just confirmed CAI will start on A321 Jan 4 2013

Also confirmed AMM will receive flat bed product.

[VintageKrug]

Here are the new seats:

http://www.thompsonaero.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=53&Itemid=57

[IanFromHKG]

So BA are moving to a model where the so-called New Club World (more accurately, Really Quite Old Club World) on long-haul won’t be as good as the Club World on mid-haul routes. Brilliant. Or is that Bizarre??

[VintageKrug]

I think the latest version of Club World was first introduced in 2007, so it’s not that “old” – as I mentioned previously “newness” is not necessarily aligned to quality as those airlines which still insist on rolling out slidey/wedgy seat evidence.

In my view, the privacy afforded by the patented ying/yang Club World configuration can’t be bettered, and is still market leading.

As several of these mid-haul routes used to have the Club Europe product on board, moving to these new fully-flat seats is a definite improvement.

[IanFromHKG]

I am not sure I agree with that, VK – five years is starting to look a little stale, if you ask me. I don’t have the dates, but I know that in the 19 years I have been in HK, CX have gone through four iterations of long-haul business, which would imply a 5-6 year life cycle.

Also – and I am willing to be corrected here since I never flew the earlier version – is it not right to say that the latest version of Club World was heavily based on the old one, with the main differentiator being the dividers?

I disagree with you about the privacy, though – new CX is much better (and the old ones were even more private, albeit at the expense of the “coffin effect”). I *hate* the way that you are almost eyeball-to-eyeball with your neighbour in Club World when taking off, and then if you are in an aisle seat you are constantly interrupted by staff leaning across you and your meal/drink, and in front of your TV, in order to serve your neighbour. You are also completely open to the aisle on one side. If you are main deck in the centre seats, you have someone sitting next to you. I really don’t see how you can maintain that that level of privacy can’t be bettered!!

[Bruce98]

++I disagree with you about the privacy++

Good point, one forms the impression that some posters do not fly with any airline other than BA.

NCW is a good product, but no longer great when compared to the competition. For example, the IFE is shown on a screen that is dissapointingly small, compared to the 15 inch screens on other airlines.

[VintageKrug]

I think that’s the point; a 5-6 year lifecycle suggests “newness for newness’ sake”.

As it happens, CX has massively negative feedback on its previous herringbone layout and was forced to change; BA has resoundingly positive feedback for its ying/yang Club World, and holds a patent which other airlines cannot replicate (though watch this space on licensing)…..

The “new” Club World is the same layout, but completely new components, including the footrest, tray redesign, drawer and various other design improvements such as the “Z” bed configuration – much more than just the dividers changed.

I always get a private seat unless travelling with a companion, and then the centre seats make a very pleasant private space.

[IanFromHKG]

Again, I am not sure I agree with all you say, VK. I *do* agree that newness for newness’ sake is ridiculous, but the fact is that peoples’ expectations and product innovations also have to be taken into account. The initial iteration of yin-yang and the flat bed seat was undoubtedly way ahead of the opposition at the time. That is no longer the case, and in some respects the seat is no longer particularly competitive. Savior_Monk points out one of the most obvious, which is the very poor screen (even the higher-resolution screens on the new B777s are still not on a par with the competition, and are much much smaller), and I would also point out the relatively restricted width of the seats compared to those offered by other airlines. More pertinently for me (and many others), however, is the fact that the bed is just 6 feet long. I am three inches longer than that, and find it quite difficult to get comfortable unless I am lucky enough to get one of the very very few seats on each aircraft which have an extra couple of inches. To me, this is a very significant drawback – I can cope with feeling crammed in like a sardine, but only if I actually have enough room to stretch out.

Given all of these drawbacks, I think CW is now falling quite significantly behind the market leaders, and I would like to see BA upping their game.

I note, incidentally, that in your list of things that changed in the “new” Club World, you mentioned things like the footrest, tray, drawer etc – but not the actual SEAT. Perhaps that was what you meant by the reference to the Z-bed configuration, but it isn’t clear…

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

For what it is worth, I don’t think the BA Club J seat is all that special. I appreciate there are those who like it – which is fair enough – but in my humble opinion there are much better products out there. I won’t argue against the fact that the Club layout is very efficient and profitable for BA and it is consistent on most longhaul routes (unlike Emirates for example). Therefore no qualms with those who choose BA but if I had my choice there are many carriers I would put ahead of BA. I have nothing against BA – I just see them as a Mid Table product compared to others out there.

However regardless of my opinion it is good to see they are looking at the mid-haul product and introducing something better than they currently have on many routes.

[rferguson]

@Timfitzgerald: I think most would agree with you there. There are far more luxurious J class products out there.

I think where BA’s J class strengths lay with the seat is that there are few airlines with a long haul fleet or network the size of BA’s where you will be guaranteed a fully flat product on board. Certainly amongst the european and american carriers anyway. And with some of the middle eastern carriers too. On many of these airlines you can go from J class ‘Boom’ to J class ‘Doom’ at the click of a finger.

[VintageKrug]

Exactly.

I think consistency of cabin/seat is a major selling point for BA vs. other carriers. This midhaul seat does muddy the water somewhat, but on balance it is better than what customers would be expecting on several former CE routes, and at worst equivalent to Club World on other routes where that seat was prevalent.

While I am a fan of the new CX J seat, I don’t have the need to travel to HKG and prefer more direct routings when heading to SYD. There’s no question its a good seat, but then layer in the route network referred to and BA can get me most places I want/need to get to on its own metal in less than one stop. That’s the real differentiator.

[FLYING-HIGH]

VK not sure how you know which fleet will operate the CAI route when it switches onto the A321.Route transfers have only been announced until December 2012, so could you please confirm your source?

CAI is one of BAs biggest ICC bases and at present CAI crew cannot operate with Mixed Fleet.

So please answer my question VK, please direct me to the source of your info?

[omanair330]

Just wondering whether anyone has a link to any pictures of the new seats inside the aircraft?

Also wondering whether BA have much faith in Amman with their new schedule? A 03:15 departure from Amman to Heathrow is no doubt great for aircraft productivity, but will people use it? Even the Easyjet timings are better, even if the service is only run 3x a week.

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