[rferguson]

There is another good reason in terms of cost and productivity why BA would switch this to a ‘mid haul’ product – or long haul product on a short haul aircraft (A321). Dare I throw it into the thread – and i’m hoping it doesn’t go the same way as the ‘change of crew on lax’ thread, but the reason is Mixed Fleet.

Long haul legacy crew currently operate the route. Long haul legacy are not licensed on the A321/320/319 series. Should the aircraft switch to an A321 it would be either legacy short haul or Mixed Fleet that would pick the route up. The current BA agreement is that if short haul legacy operate a flight with long haul product they must work to the long haul agreement. For example, long haul legacy crew can not operate the flight as a there-and-back service under their agreement. All the LHR-TLV flights are currently three day trips followed by two days off.

Mixed Fleet however, under their agreement, could easily operate the likes of TLV and probably CAI as a double sector duty without the requirement to rest downroute.

[famouschicken]

@rferguson
‘lights blue touch paper and retires….’

[SimonS1]

“All the LHR-TLV flights are currently three day trips followed by two days off.”

Nice work if you can get it.

[Bucksnet]

Becky, I have followed the link you posted and I cannot find any specific information for Cairo. There is not even data for the entire continent of Africa. The May 2012 Traffic Statistics PDF is only broken down by regions, so where is the data coming from?

VK, I was asking a simple question as you seem to know more about this stuff than most of us, and I cannot see how you can extrapolate revenue data from load factor. This is yield, and as far as I’m aware is commercially sensitive information.

[BeckyBoop]

Sorry Bucksnet, it was a bit of a stab in the dark.. Sorry but i dont know any more 🙁 x

[FormerlyDoS]

“This is yield, and as far as I’m aware is commercially sensitive information.”

Quite right and cargo volume may also determine the type of aricraft used.

[Bucksnet]

No worries Becks, but VK does seem to know a lot that we don’t and/or cannot find. So VK, where is are the Cairo figures from?

The TLV crew arrangements are clearly ridiculous, and Cairo is probably the same.

A quick check on BA.com reveals quite a weird schedule. A mixture of 4 class 777s and 747s, but no flight on Wednesday/Thursday return. There is a BMI A320 daily as well. Maybe a double daily long haul 767 with mixed fleet crew is the answer?

[rferguson]

Just for those curious about the current BA crew patterns on TLV/CAI.

TLV BA165/BA162
Day 1: Early report day. (considered a working day but free of duties)
Day 2: Operate BA165.
Day 3: Operate BA162
Followed by 2 days off.

TLV BA163/BA164
Day 1; Check in late evening. Night flight.
Day 2: Arrive TLV early morning.
Day 3: Operate BA164 departing early morning.
Followed by two days off.

CAI BA155.
Day 1: Check in early evening. Arrive CAI late night.
Day 2: Free of duty.
Day 3: Early morning departure CAI-LHR.
Followed by two days off.

Even Mixed Fleet could not operate the CAI as a return flight as it is currently scheduled as the aircraft is on the ground in CAI for around 8 hours.

[Binman62]

I have long felt that flights over 2.5 hours in Europe were in need of a far better business class product to justify the fare levels and to enhance the experience of flying bA from say LAX to IST. The last 3 hours of such a journey is awful for those ghastly club Europe seats.

It will be a pity however if such a move  also means that BA abandon their long haul products on destinations such as CAI and TLV. The recent move to improve Moscow was very welcome and I would hope that the former BMI aircraft could be scheduled on routes such as IST LCA ATH and TIP. They are in critical need of the improvement and the use of flat beds or even cradle seats would make a world of difference.

[capetonianm]

Load factor is obviously not an indication of yield. Anyone who has access to passenger lists and ticketing information can work out the approximate yield based on the fare classes and subclasses in which those passengers are booked. You would need access to the fare levels, that information is in the public domain, and would need to know how to work out pro-rated values. It’s not rocket science although there are several comopnents in the equation.

[Bucksnet]

So where does VK get his data from? Please answer!

[SimonS1]

rferguson – interesting.

So BA154/5 have combined 9 hours 35 mins of flying. Whilst accepting that there is a need to report early for duty, time differences, rest period etc, that isn’t exactly onerous in a 5 day period.

The simple fact here is most companies would go bust quite quickly with this level of productivity. Many people work 8 or 9 hour days day in day out, plus also have to travel to work.

Doesn’t this illustrate the challenge BA has?

[capetonianm]

I’ve no idea where VK gets his information from but if he’s in, or associated with, the airline industry then he would be able, as I am, to get it. Obviously to publish it would be unethical and inappropriate and I’m sure he has no intention of doing so, any more than I would.

[Binman62]

simonS1…..I am not here to defend cabin crew but you really cannot take The LHR CAI operation in isolation like that. Cabin crew did not schedule it like that, the company did.

It not just that they work 8/9 hours but then need to deal with jet lag and being away from home…..yes they signed up and yes there needs to be an appropriate level of productivity.

But it needs to be seen in the round and a more accurate level of productivity might be how the are scheduled on LHR to East Coast destination such as BOS JFK IAD PHL etc.

I would not for example wish to be  UK based Qantas crew.  

Day 1 Report LHR 7.30pm
Day 2 Arrive  SIN Hotel  7Pm
Day 3 Dep for LHR with report time of 22.00
Day 4 arrive LHR 6am.

The time are approx but it is hardly glamorous and that looks like hard work to me.

[SimonS1]

I understand that different sectors have different schedules, however I think you exaggerate a bit. For example jet lag? We are talking about a sub 5 hour flight and a 1 hour time difference to Cairo.

Bearing in mind it’s a noon arrival a LHR, does someone really need the rest of that day and the following 2 days off to recover?

The Qantas schedules do look more like hard work I agree, then again anyone looking for a ‘glamorous’ job is about 50 years too late in the airline industry.

[Author]

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