[canucklad]

I must say that I’m wholly impressed with most of the posts —-your loyalty to our supposed “flag carrier” is akin to the loyallty shown by a certain kings 6 wives—-BA promise riches & constantly deliver excuses as to why they can’t achieve…….rather than new routes it would be great if they could deliver on what they are supposed to be doing just now….like fly to destinations in a timely manner…….I choose BD on my EDI to LHR routing…….because they will at least make an attempt to get you home or to your work…….BA will cut all domestic flights at the drop of the proverbial “BOWLER” hat to ensure their London Airways reputation

[Sparepocket]

Now,now Canucklad…play nice or the other kids (i.e. the BA ‘Groupies’) won’t come out to play. :o)

[Munkyboi]

Ha ha Sparepocket, Canucklad does have a fair point though. I’m a BA fan, but sometimes they do shoot themselves in the foot. I’ve had several “worrying” moments on LHR ABZ trips, will we wont we! Fortunately all went, although a 0230 arrive once was far from enjoyable.

Re DClinPsy’s point with merging with FlyLo, sorry FlyBE, I did wonder if this might be on IAG radar, personally I don’t think BA should have sold BA connect…

[DavidArnold]

I full agree with the last comment by MunkyBoi, BA Connect was an excellent service and my flights from Birmingham to Paris, Frankfurt, Copenhagen were always well supported.

As I stated previously if we had some competition from BA against even the likes of FlyBe as well as the national flag carriers I am sure the profit margins would be advantageous.

The likes of Lufthansa and Air France are cheaper than FlyBe and with additional costs of baggage etc. I am sure the prices offered by BA would be a more attractive proposition with the same level of service and aircraft that BA at T5 offers.

I use BA from T5 to worldwide destinations in Club and there is nothing like the “smell of home” when returning back on a BA 777 or 747 and I strive again for that from Birmingham or Manchester even if it just a European destination.

[Munkyboi]

DavidArnold makes further valid points. I live closer to LGW than LHR and go to ABZ quite regularly. Usually BA from LHR (from work) and then BE home to LGW. Just recently BE’s prices seem to have shot up, I am now using BA both ways, with the increased miles/TP’s on domestics and the fact that the BE base price (without bags seats etc) is practically the same as BA, its a no brainer! As a premium BAEC member one gets all the benefits!

Still would like a BA ABZ to LGW though! 🙂 I did write to BA and request this, and a polite reply that it would be passed to someone. I did also suggest to them that they should have a “Where would you like us to fly” on their web site. One wonders if they use the flight search to log requests to destination that they dont fly to, and see whether its viable.

[DClinPsy]

They have their reason to sell BA connect, I personally don’t know. I am not really following them to be honest, I am based in Singapore for the past 2 years and as I am trying to be a loyal Oneworld flyer considering London as my home and I am about to go back soon, i find my self flying in SQ metals most of the times (they have AVOD on all aircraft including those last under 1 hour!) and CX, occasionally, I personally think both SQ and CX are the best airlines out there!

But for an European airline, I find BA as very consistent in term of services and products offering, BA City flyer is one of my absolute favorite in Europe and the mobile check-In is just a miracle!

Furthermore, I couldn’t agree more than DavidArnold’s “smell of home” whenever I am in Singapore’s Changi and spotted a BA metal either Parking or Landing, it makes me miss home and, I am not being patriotic but I always take pride to know that my colleagues and friends here personally think that BA offer the best service and product among other European airlines and BA is the world’s first to introduce fully flat bed Business Class.

[JasonMyers]

I would like to see BA fly the London – Manila route as there is no direct flights connecting the two cities. Surely there is demand with the large amount of Filipino’s residing in the UK and BA is losing business to the Middle East carriers on this route. BA could even stop in the middle east and pick up more passengers where the route is really in demand.

[canucklad]

Just in case BD’s Lufthansa man is moniterring this—-Iand taking on-board sparepockets comments I applaud the in-flight service on BA “domestic” regardless of were you sit in cabin—–although BMI—sorry,forgot “British Midland International ” has/had great service in the past I’m sure that Michael O’Leary is topping up his salary with consulting fees to BD management

Last nights sndwich was akin to someting you would expect 5 hours into a wake

And since my new company policy came into force, when in the cheap seats -BMI make sure you know your in the cheap seat place….It seems a lifetime ago when we where valued

So it’s not all anti-BA and terminal 5 is ….well not terminal 1

[Binman62]

Canucklad. Agree with your first post….London Airways is bang on the money. BA has abandoned the UK market out side of the M25. Their focus is clearly on North Atlantic and European originating traffic transiting T5 and the development of the Madrid hub. They have made no effort to reward or recognise the BA Executive member in the UK for many years, yet are throwing 100,000 miles at US residents and silver cards for one flight ex Europe.

As for where they should fly. Well SEL TPE MNL GGK KUL have all been tried and failed. CGK is a non starter as the fares for anyone other than SQ are simply not viable for BAs costs base. Would love to see them go to DPS but they have missed the boat there with KLM and Qatar now a real presence on the SIN DPS sector and very competative fares.

Havana, Detroit Colombo again all been tried and all failed.

BA once it gets some new aircraft…..which may be a while yet due to the Dreamliner delays, will focus on India and China where the money is. An expansion to Africa is long overdue where yields are still high but I can’t see Freetown or Monrovia coming back into the BA network anytime soon.

Saddens me really that they have shrunk their network so much and allowed their shorthaul product to become so poor. (Club Europe is a joke especially on anything over 2.5hrs) but I fear that unless they re engaged with the British market ( when was the last time they ran a TV ad campaign in the UK).then they will become a transit carrier at T5.

[DClinPsy]

Binman62,

“As for where they should fly. Well SEL TPE MNL GGK KUL have all been tried and failed. CGK is a non starter as the fares for anyone other than SQ are simply not viable for BAs costs base. Would love to see them go to DPS but they have missed the boat there with KLM and Qatar now a real presence on the SIN DPS sector and very competative fares.”

What’s with the pessimistic? You can’t be sure unless you give it a go. LH has maintain their SIN-CGK presence for about 4 years now? If they can do it, I am sure BA can do it as well. The markets are growing, Asia’s economic is booming, Seoul is developing very fast, so does CGK and KUL. Just because they failed once doesn’t mean they have to give it up forever. BA is behind the other 3 major European carriers in-term of the number of Asian cities served and Finnair is catching up too, not to mention, AY’s profits come from Asia.

BA can be the bridge between Far East and USA/Canada’s East Coast, the Caribbean and south America and vice versa, do note that, SQ is flying between Singapore and Sao Paulo via Barcelona, I am sure BA can do the same route from all asian cities served via London, they just need to market the idea.

[Hippocampus]

BA has returned to former routes in the past (SAN, EZE direct) so I would not rule out a return to former routes in Asia. As well as market conditions, BA’s cabin crew costs on Asia routes have historically been very high and costs under Mixed Fleet will be much lower. Also add in the operating efficiency of newer aircraft.

The one thing counting against BA is its position in Western Europe to capture connecting traffic from the rest of Europe.

[sparkyflier]

There have been some brilliant replies and honest thoughts following my starting this discussion.I wonder if BA Mngt, if they are reading, are taking notes or cringing. I think lots of traffic is being lost to KL via AMS as it is simply easier and cheaper to transfer there.However UK government not supporting the 3rd LHR runway, the tax increases/fees and BAA really hiking some fees you can see why BA & BMI are dropping these routes.

Reverting to some posts; – Asia. With using up just 2 daily departure slots BA could launch competitive flights and schedules to 6 new destinations in the far east:-

Slot 1:-

SLE 3 times a week nonstop direct
LHR Phuket – 4 times a week, with a tag on to Hanoi Ho Chi Minh 2 days a week each

Slot 2 Daily flight to KUL, with 3 flights on to Denpasar and 4 flights on to CGK
All with 777 to get the routes up and running.

The economies of all these places are dynamic or are sought after high end tourist routes, so filling up all the cabins.

Not sure about Manila, KLM is the only European carrier these now and think they have dropped from a 773 to a 772.

In Africa, Binman62 also thought Africa was long overdue for expansion, but can ask where you think?

I think BA, short of slots but are also maybe short of imagination. Freetown and Monrovia are getting many more flights to Europe from Brussels Airways, KLM/Air France, and none of these having former colonial links to these places, but they realise there is money to be made. These 2 places have dynamic economies and are opening up for investment. aA 3 x weekly LHR-Freetown-Monrovia-LHR triangle routing on 767?

In Nigeria, Port Harcourt could be a nice little earner, like AF and LH are finding, They route their planes (773 + 340) via Lagos & Abuja in that order. Maybe BA could land in LOS and then go to PHC, instead of staying on the ground in LOS for 6 hours. The crew would rest in PHC.

Malabo is served by Iberia with 319, which may be OK, but LH uses 340 also via Abuja!

How about a LHR- Douala-Libreville routing for the oil routes, as well as Gorilla /jungle tourism?

Luanda can currently only be served 2 times a week, but makes loads of %/£. Iberia could maybe add to this.

In East Africa Rwanda is happening, SN/KL serve this. Mombasa has been spoken of in other threads but in my opinion needs to be a LHR route as the Nairobi flight is, and holiday makers who want Safari & Beach will want to go in and out the same airport. Hence I suggest a 2/3 times weekly LHR/KIG/MOM/KIG/LHR 767 routing. KIH makes a better base for a crew than EBB as it is so far from the hotels in Kampala.

In Egypt the Cairo flight could tag on to Luxor, with the Sharm flight becoming a LHR route (for the 2 centre travellers)on maybe a 767.

In South America, how about:-

LHR – EZE – Santiago. The daily 777 may be over capacity, but not with this extra connection, especially with LAN feed.

Belo Horizonte is a dynamic business city, and the 3rd/4th largest in Brazil. Their only European flight is on TAP, which is not even daily. This could be a tag on to GRU or GIG.

BA may not be a fan of tag ons, but this may be a way to get a route gong before maturing to its own standalone service.

Looking forward to your further thoughts/replies/ideas!

H

[transtraxman]

This is a really interesting forum. Some know more than the rest of us about aircraft, crew costs etc. which will always determine if a service is viable or not. But some other thoughts.

1- For route information of traffic potential from different international airports (in this case into London) this site provides a lot..
http://www.anna.aero

2- Does anybody know which BA planes and how many of them are laid up at Cardiff, the Nevada desert or elsewhere? These could be brought into service in a question of weeks. This is easier than waiting for the 787s to be delivered while most certainly cheaper than leasing.

3- I agree with almost all the suggestions made so far, especially by “sparkyflyer” with logical reasoning. However, I would like to throw in a few more additional destinations so that somebody can tell me “why not”

Americas:
The Yucatan Peninsula is becoming more and more popular so Belize looks like a good addition either direct or through Georgetown (Cayman Is)
BA should fly into Lima (Peru) to connect to LAN´s South American network. This could be done direct (to compliment Iberia) or through Bogata(Col) or Georgetown(Guyana).

Africa: Apart from the destinations already mentioned…
Seychelles, Zanzibar, Harare (must be on the cards in the future), Kinshasa(this used to be a gold mine for BCal but difficult).
One route cries out for a BA presence is Durban(with its new airport)

Asia: Kingfisher will provide a lot of connections as do Cathay Pacific and JAL
I do like the idea of flying through Kuala Lumpur on to Hanoi/Ho Chi Minh, but what about adding Manila to make the London-KL route daily.
From Helsinki Finnair already serves Nagoya(Jpn), Osaka (Jpn) and Seoul(Kor) so promoting these through Helsinki would increase the offer. If not what is “oneworld” for? Let us not forget the potential of Air Berlin in this context.

Pacific:
I also cannot understand why New Zealand is not served by BA.
Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide are also ignored but could be used as stopping points on the way to NZ (or does Qantas have a veto?)
If BA flew into Honolulu then it would logical to reinaugurate the “round the world route” which it had years ago. Maybe it could fly through Fiji, Samoa or Tonga to/from the West Coast US cities and to /from Australia or Singapore.

In other aspects BA´s franchisees Sunair(Billund-Denmark) and Comair(Sth.Afr.) should be brought more under the wing of BA/IAG and pushed to provide more and better feeder/regional services.
The same should be said for Flybe, Air Nostrum and Vueling. With closer integration, cross advertising and above all easier interconnection of the frequent flyer programmes.

Finally these regional carriers could help feed BA´s “Openskies” subsidiary if it flew from more (competing)cities in Europe (meaning Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Geneva and Milan at least)

[sparkyflier]

Thank you Transtraxman for your informed and innovative reply and some “out the box” thinking!
In some of my suggestions I have been restrained as a) there are slot restraints and b) BA route planners seem not to be “out the box” thinkers and Kinshasa might just seem to “out there” for them!

Anyway, pleased to get back on some of your points:-

Americas:-

Belize has ben suggested by me and others on other threads. One of the rationale for this route I understand is the British military base there and the cargo sent there and back. Grand Cayman /Georgetown currently gets a 767 which stops in Nassau. ( a nice flight too, been on it a few times and really like their 767). I do not know if GCM can take anything larger than a 767, and therefore if the cargo requirements of operating into Belize require a 777. Grand Cayman is “on the way” to Belize but maybe other readers may know this. But a you say, it is a happening part of the world for tourists and it is a commonwealth country.I am sure Lord Ashcroft would like this route if he does not have a private jet!

I am with you on flying into Lima and/or Bogota.Both have a good economy and KL fly into Lima, with AF soon to follow, and LH have started regular flights into BOG with 346.

Lan Airlines I hear are very good but they may be missing a trick not flying into LHR. Maybe things will change with the TAM/LAN merger (LATAM)

Africa

Seychelles has been mentioned on other posts on this site. It is marketing itself as and has some very high end hotels, for people most likely to choose a C, F or Y+. Do not know if the traffic would require its own service, but the country has raised its game and Emirates seems to do well on the route!

Harare will come back at some stage, but maybe not until Mugabe has gone,whenever that will be, and depending on what happens after. It may be a tag on to Lusaka, which has a good economy ( Zambia used to be far poorer than Zimbabwe, how times have changed!)
KInshasa was flown by British Celedonian as Transtraxman said. This happened when BCal retired their 707s and replaced them with A310, which did not have the legs to get to Lusaka nonstop, and so BCal introduced Kinshasa as a stop, along with Libreville. Since then of course Zaire bacame Congo DRC, there has been a war, but things I believe are calmer now.

Durban does have a new airport, but as you mention, BA has its Comair operation there in SA. Not sure if there is sufficient traffic for a regular nonstop LHR/DUR route, so maybe a flight that stops in LUN/GBE/Libreville/Joburg or indeed Kigali en route to Durban.

Asia

As you say, the Oneworld partners bring many options- Finnair and soon Kingfisher and Air Berlin. Not sure if the inflight product of AB is much better than a charter operator though.Anyone with experience of this carrier on long haul flights please correct me if I am wrong)

Pacific you may well be right, Oz and NZ is for QF to look after. Planes going there take up loads of time for not much extra revenue and EK is very powerful and popular on the route. In addition, CX can get you there.

Going back to your query about BA planes in storage/Cardiff etc, I believe they are being bought back into service, along with the new 773s coming in the fleet, providing capacity and vessels with which to find new revenue streams

There are opportunities out there, some countries economies have problems, some are really booming. BA needs to look at all the many opportunities and decide if it is happy for the AF, LH and other mega carriers to make the most of these, or if it wants a piece of the action.

[nevereconomy]

I think BA should focus less on additional routes and more on raising themselves fom their appalling mediocrity.

[Author]

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